The truth about vinyl.vinyl vs digital
- Thread starter Gregadd
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Interesting, but could other factors be at play? For example, as I recall, UHQR LPs are pressed on 200g vinyl which is thicker than 180g pressings. Did anyone try raising the VTA ever so slightly to see if that improved the sound of the LP?
Yes, there were likely many factors at play. We did not have the time or interest in investigating all of them, or even discussing them beyond the likely differences in mastering. We did not raise the arm slightly. There just seemed more information on the earlier pressing, which was stripped/absent on the reissue. Low level resolution, nuance, and ambience. Bass quality too, as I recall. We did prefer one digital file to the UHQR also which I found surprising. So best was early vinyl, second best was digital, last was new vinyl. With more time, we could have experimented some.
If one prefers the heavier UHQR to an early, non original pressing or even to a later reissue, then to be fair, he might want adjust the VTA for the thinner LP too. Lots of possibilities as you point out. Thank you.
LOL, what record stores, the 2 per city? Compared to digital it's a blip of total music sales at ~5%. There's no significant comeback, it only seems so from an audiophile vinyl lovers' perspective.You are incorrect. Go to record store day, huge lines of millennials buying records. The age bracket of 25-35 is more likely to buy records than the boomers:
Vinyl buyers in the U.S. by age 2019 | Statista
Consumers in the age bracket 25 to 34 were just as likely as those aged 55 and older to buy vinyl records in the United States, with 21 percent of those in both age groups having purchased at least one record in 2019.www.statista.com
And to the contrary - digital has launched forward doubling annual revenue from ~$6 Billion to ~$12 Billion over the past 10 years. The populous is indeed re - discovering and enjoying music, it's called digital steaming.
U.S. Sales Database - RIAA
I just went to St Louis, MO and there were 15 stores that came up on my search. In LA and New York there are 50+ places that sell vinyl. This is an audiophile website and we are talking about audiophile behavior, not the general public. When you're discussing premium boutique wine, do you mention boxed white zinfandel outsells Opus One? Ridiculous.
I have the original Columbia 6-eye(no CBS at 12'o clock), and it bests my 4 single-sided Classic 45 rpm reissue. This saved me from buying the prone to pressing defect "clear" UHQR.
Even though the Classic reissue was freshly remixed from the original 3-track masters by Bernie Grundman back in 1995(unlike the MoFi 45 rpm which uses the original mix), IMO, it still suffered from tape degradation.
*If* this discussion is / was about vinyl vs digital then its a discussion of storage and playback. In my opinion a good way to compare this is to compare modern digital--master based vinyl to the released digital file. Sure it isn't 'AAA' analog but you can compare playback ( which already contains too many variables ) without the confusion of recording and mastering differences.
Except that most vinyl buyers are not audiophiles, and buy into the digital vinyl experience with their turntables featuring USB ports.
So perhaps we are discussing boxed white zinfandel instead of Opus One premium boutique wine after all, when it comes to the broader vinyl resurgence.
Except that vinyl needs different mastering anyway, even when it is based on the released digital file.
Because of limitations of the vinyl format, the master needs to be modified, see for example:
Vinyl Mastering
Tips for vinyl mastering - preparing digital masters for vinyl pressing.
www.gottagrooverecords.com
I could pull up other websites that basically say the same thing. These things have been known for a long time.
Anyone with a home stereo system at this point is an audiophile. Remember, audiophile doesn’t mean it’s an expensive system, just that it’s a dedicated audio system. Go on Reddit and you’ll see that there are thousands of posters with really cool vintage systems with AR, Bose and IBL systems.
you simply can’t compare digital downloads which are primarily listened on portable devices to vinyl sales. Comparing the two is absurd.
so maybe my boxed wine/Opus example is not accurate. It’s more like boxed wine/small boutique winery.
What bothers me about the media is that good early pressings of jazz, classic rock, and classical titles is expensive to outrageous while digital music is basically dirt cheap to free.
Sadly, the supply of good original vinyl is scarce and the demand is high. I do not think this is going to change anytime soon and it is reflected in prices.
The cost of pursuing digital is in the hardware and software upgrades, not in the music.
Sadly, the supply of good original vinyl is scarce and the demand is high. I do not think this is going to change anytime soon and it is reflected in prices.
The cost of pursuing digital is in the hardware and software upgrades, not in the music.
This is a good point…with a vinyl system, the media is as important as the gear.
Yes, that cost, not just the hardware setup, is another reason why I will not get into vinyl myself, but rather enjoy it in systems like yours.
While buying CDs is more expensive than streaming for 20 bucks a month, it is still dirt cheap indeed, compared to vinyl. Good to excellent sounding CDs can routinely be had for $10 to $ $20, not to speak of dirt cheap box sets. My 71 CD box set of complete Bach cantatas (Helmut Rilling cond.) cost me a whopping $ 77. You do the calculation per CD.
The most I have ever spent on a rare audiophile CD was 50 bucks.
Sometimes it does. Mostly with the kinds of music not often used on wbf for listening references. I used to own a Neumann VMS70 cutting system so have had some hands on experience.Except that vinyl needs different mastering anyway, even when it is based on the released digital file.
Because of limitations of the vinyl format, the master needs to be modified, see for example:
Vinyl Mastering
Tips for vinyl mastering - preparing digital masters for vinyl pressing.
I could pull up other websites that basically say the same thing. These things have been known for a long time.
This can also be verified by looking on Reddit audiophile type forums. Mostly young people with modest or beginner type systems, with turntables and a stack of vinyl. Great to see these younger folks being dedicated in the hobby and going vinyl..You are incorrect. Go to record store day, huge lines of millennials buying records. The age bracket of 25-35 is more likely to buy records than the boomers:
Vinyl buyers in the U.S. by age 2019 | Statista
Consumers in the age bracket 25 to 34 were just as likely as those aged 55 and older to buy vinyl records in the United States, with 21 percent of those in both age groups having purchased at least one record in 2019.
Very much agree, but also Peter it’s worth noting the various outcomes of choice of platform to pursue recorded music has a range of potentials and constraints well beyond cost of hardware v software.
In the end the cost at the pump of playing music via a system ultimately is a summative thing… and none of us aren’t likely mostly maxed out here in this pursuit
I sold my analogue setup and with it my vinyl collection once to do a gap year grand tour of the world… my gear at the time Sota sapphire, SME V and some Garrot brothers modified deccas and dynavectors bought us nearly 4 months in the Mediterranean alone. We were young and we travelled cheap.
I don’t now regret selling my LP collection as well because I’d realised much of it was audiophile selected so not primarily for musical performance but rather for sonic criteria. I’d started out a music lover and realised I’d been led by my particular audiophile focus to become somehow a sonic seeker
So I had all these albums which I’d curated more so on the basis of the recording credentials rather than just the musical performance. Ultimately it meant I’d play just a smallish selection of performances that largely satisfied both for music artistry and for sonic wonder when I needed a sonic moment with my system as well as a more musical moment with myself.
After a lifetime of enjoying what I had but also realising I wasn’t really where I wanted to be I’m happy that simply great performance and artistry and diversity in music and musical discovery is now my focus… and this is just more possible for me with my current setup. I’d love to have the option of a revisit to analogue as an addition but to get something that I’d be happy to use often would require a total budget equal to my current setup or more by the time I factored in a sufficiently sized library (2 thousand recordings at least) of great analogue vinyl with sufficiently great musical performances. Big call for me to have both… might genuinely be a beyond turntable setup but more for me a budget beyond than anything else
.But I definitely don’t want to find myself playing the same handful of records or reel to reel tapes over and over again… that’s just not loving music and living a full musical life in a way that’s become right for me.
We each get what we need out of this and it is not the same for each and not the same for us as we change along the way. After decades of going from being a simple music lover to being a full on audiophile I’ve found myself primarily to be a simple music lover again… but with a great system.
I love great music and great analogue and great digital and appreciate great sound as well. So instead till an opportunity comes up for something otherwise I focus on playing music on my current setup and stay focussed primarily on musical connection through engaging in music’s artistry and in further discovery. I generally listen to whole albums and each concert is different, each performance a new interpretation, seeing familiar artists as well and familiar music and also my favourite composers but expanding to realise how every performance can take you to a new appreciation and not just reliving those same handful of exact same moments in time… simply more like going to live music and having the musical journey unfold.
I’m lucky my system sounds natural and connective and the music is the focus. Sure I can do sonic appreciation (and love that quality as well) but it’s not where the system is centred. It always leads me back into the music.
I started out analogue (vinyl and reel to reel) and now visit a mate regularly who has the right setup and the right record library for enjoying that analogue window as well. But there is no shortage of access to great music at home, and for me the format that leads me to the greatest accessibility for that happens to be currently digital based and the musical return on investment is very full. If I was more purely sonically geared I might choose otherwise.
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You win on the # of records stores, however how many are open today versus, say 1972? I’d wager <50%. Net is - there’s no resurgence, it’s a niche market at best.
Second – While this is an audiophile website as you state the OP’s topic is – “The truth about vinyl. Vinyl vs. digital”, and clearly not restricted to audiophiles.
Third – data is data and understanding national trends is as relevant as those defending a “comeback” posting graphs conveniently dating back to the quantifiable death of vinyl rather than providing data as to when it was a viable format in the 70s and 80s (when it was selling in the Billions not millions).
And finally, you’re right, being an audiophile doesn’t require an expensive system but it also doesn’t mean you need a dedicated home stereo. Many people use their HT setup as a 2 channel stereo, some use 2 channel systems double duty in their garages, some outdoors, etc. And let's not forget the those that use headphones and - yes earbuds that are indeed audiophiles.
Net is - If you enjoy the pursuit of and have an appreciation for music delivered on what YOU deem is a quality device, you’re an audiophile. To what degree is your choice and hopefully an enjoyable adventure.
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OK- good point. Most times people refer to 'different mastering' they refer to mastering techniques that address phase, LF, HF and limiting. Most mastering studios offer 'vinyl pre-masters' for this reason. RIAA is embedded into the cutting rack and not a mastering engineer decision. So perhaps this is a matter of semantics...Sometimes?? No matter what it requires RIAA EQ as a minimum.
Rob
As an side the cutting process also involves conversion by means of cutterhead from electric waveform into motion...I wasn't suggesting that no differences would take place...just that the digital 'pre-master' *can* be the same for both end formats.
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