This entire post basically states my case that help would be welcome. You suffer from audiophile analysis paralysis. You have a dealer who has been in business for 30+ years with hearing sound in a thousand rooms and you think you can outsmart him. Even if this is a "starting point" it's likely better than what you have. I have multiple dealers in LA that would be more than welcome to spend an afternoon with me - if yours won't, whom you've spent significant $ with, that's a serious issue. It will probably cut through the mental red tape.
Anyways, I'm just trying to help. Don't take my post as being negative. Call Goodwin's and schedule some time with them. What is there to lose?
ps- speaker positioning really shouldn't change based on component choices especially with monitors. you're moving the goalposts
It seems to me that this is an individual hobby and people are free to pursue it in anyway they want. Some will hire an outside expert or dealer to set everything up for them and others will tinker to their delight and learn in the process.
In my case I continue to tinker because I have so much more to learn and I am enjoying the process.
with the recent changes to the sound with new speaker cables or preamp or power delivery, I am finding very minor changes in speaker position and fine-tuning seems to better optimize some of those other changes. And if I end up where I started, I will have at least learn something in the process.
I think we are generally quick to criticize the way others approach the hobby. If Al were to actually solicit the advice of others rather than just report what he is doing, then I think suggestions would be more constructive and welcome.
The other important element in all of this is that tastes can change over time regardless of whether or not our reference of live music changes. With more experience and exposure we start realizing new things which may lead us to even more tinkering. In the end, it’s all good.
It is Keith's quote but I might have some similar thinking in mind.
@Al M. You made a lot of comments about how you hear live classical music and how close your system sound to it. I am wondering if your perception of what you heard live at concerts keep changIng over time that's why we have been seeing you keep changing setups of your room and speaker placement.
Do you think that your system and setup is at a mature stage now? To be honest I am sorting out which systems in this forum is mature and which is still evolving. For example, I find ddk's and Mike's system and room very mature. We dont see them keep moving speakers, altering room for years.
I think we are generally quick to criticize the way others approach the hobby. If Al were to actually solicit the advice of others rather than just report what he is doing, then I think suggestions would be more constructive and welcome.
The other important element in all of this is that tastes can change over time regardless of whether or not our reference of live music changes. With more experience and exposure we start realizing new things which may lead us to even more tinkering. In the end, it’s all good.
It is Keith's quote but I might have some similar thinking in mind.
@Al M. You made a lot of comments about how you hear live classical music and how close your system sound to it. I am wondering if your perception of what you heard live at concerts keep changIng over time that's why we have been seeing you keep changing setups of your room and speaker placement.
Do you think that your system and setup is at a mature stage now? To be honest I am sorting out which systems in this forum is mature and which is still evolving. For example, I find ddk's and Mike's system and room very mature. We dont see them keep moving speakers, altering room for years.
Peter, I think one could maybe at least say a mature system is from someone understanding their goals. It comes from knowing what they want even if it changes.
Where as others really just don’t know. They upgrade for small aspects of system but try new stuff often. They want people to tell them what’s good, because what is ultimately still desirable remains elusive to them.
The system will exude the character they seek. It won’t necessarily be universally liked.
It's a question of experience Peter, IME most audiophiles have no idea what to go for and what to target in an system and they're not really to blame. It takes time to understand and opportunity to sample, that's the reason my system hasn't changed almost at all in twenty years when prior to really knowing what it should be I used to change components constantly thinking I knew what I wanted vs what it should be. "Natural" is what I arrived out and knew it instantly when I got there.I understand this, but it does not seem to leave room for someone changing his tastes overtime. So the system may have been mature not changed in anyway and then suddenly the owner decides he wants to change because he listens to a different genre of music or spends more time in front of live music or any other number of possible reasons.
I suppose at that point people can just say, “well, his system used to be mature.“ I think a distinction needs to be made between the system itself and the owner. Unless as they say in California “you are what you drive.“
We will see what Tang thinks.
I understand this, but it does not seem to leave room for someone changing his tastes overtime. So the system may have been mature not changed in anyway and then suddenly the owner decides he wants to change because he listens to a different genre of music or spends more time in front of live music or any other number of possible reasons.
I understand this, but it does not seem to leave room for someone changing his tastes overtime. So the system may have been mature not changed in anyway and then suddenly the owner decides he wants to change because he listens to a different genre of music or spends more time in front of live music or any other number of possible reasons.
I suppose at that point people can just say, “well, his system used to be mature.“ I think a distinction needs to be made between the system itself and the owner. Unless as they say in California “you are what you drive.“
We will see what Tang thinks.
Yes if his tastes have not evolved his system won't be mature. Look at Christian, Mike, Tang, and many of those who have been in the game for long. Their tastes changed to include classical, classical wasn't such a big part in their early audiophile years. I think most of us in the initial audiophile exposure, if you visited a dealer, they would play you the normal audiophile stuff and that's what you would learn. And after that you would learn about different music and recordings to use. To choose good gear, you need to have good listening points/references, so if those haven't matured, tastes won't mature, and system won't mature
Peter, I think one could maybe at least say a mature system is from someone understanding their goals. It comes from knowing what they want even if it changes.
Where as others really just don’t know. They upgrade for small aspects of system but try new stuff often. They want people to tell them what’s good, because what is ultimately still desirable remains elusive to them.
The system will exude the character they seek. It won’t necessarily be universally liked.
Change in musical tastes has many causes, mine was 80's pop/rock nothing to do with any system outside of a few bands I just hated it specially what was going in Britain. With maturity also came the need for more and better, I simply couldn't listen to Ozzzzzy's drivel, I can't listen to Black Sabbath's lyrics anymore thinking what's this crap that I loved so much.
Being able to play and enjoy acoustic and more complex music on one's system is a different thing Ked and it becomes easier and more entertaining to listen to in a more natural setup. Tang switched to classical music almost overnight when we removed the cat litter boxes, several audiophile paraphernalia and audiophile power cords. Yes AS2000 and Lamms further enhanced the experience but the transformation to "natural" happened with decluttering the system. It's very difficult to enjoy complex music in a colored system, I'm not talking about ultimate resolution but rather low coloration and natural tonality and balance so the musical intent can come through to the listener.
david
I simply couldn't listen to Ozzzzzy's drivel, I can't listen to Black Sabbath's lyrics anymore thinking what's this crap that I loved so much.
They were my all time greats too until I heard them again about a year ago after a very long time. I still liked the sound but man the lyrics really suck.Hehe, here's some news for you, David . 'War Pigs' by Black Sabbath must be among my Top 20, or even Top 10, of rock/pop songs of all time.
Despite the fact that I like a very wide range of music, including the most sophisticated classical music.