Suggestions: SOTA Ethernet Server for a DAC Renderer

[KeithR]

I'd get a SGC i7 sonic Transport with a JCAT Femto ethernet card and a LPSU to power the sT and the Femto card.....

And sell those 501's buy my 2 511's.....

One of the reviews out there compares the SGC to the Innuous Zenith

 

[Pb Blimp]

I have been following this thread waiting to see where it goes as I had pretty much narrowed down to the same three. The one + (for me) is that the Zenith has a ripper which I can use, albeit likely only for my initial transfer from my CDs to hard drive, but as the cost of CDs go down and prices of downloads go up (tba) I may just buy the CD and transfer on to HD. This is all about sound though and my experience is that a ripped cd will still sound much better than the equivelent download. The Antipodes CX looks to be a great option too. The distributor sent me the new prices, and availability. $5600.00, available in March (sometime). NO STORAGE. It looks like you will be in for $1100.00 per terabyte. I also found out that even though you can add your own drives, I was told they need to be sourced from Antipodes. Feature wise these two options seem to have the same features/build, but the Zenith has the in memory playback, vs. the Antipodes having HQ Player software. Depending on what you plan on doing with your files wrt upsampling, HQ player may not be important. There seems to be an inconsistency from Mojo regarding HQPlayer, and software in general. At one point he was all for loading Roon/HQplayer and using the combo whether or not you were upsampling, then I think he felt JRiver was the best sounding player. I think the key to Mojo is running AO, which I am very aquanted. Then you got to think about the JCat ethernet/usb. In my system I much prefered Roon direct (no DSP) than with HQplayer in the loop. When I was upsampling everything to DSD 512, HQp was king, but this is moot for me at this stage. If I decide to go Mojo it would likely be with Linux OS because of MSWindows constant updates that invariably cause incompatibility issues between various software that you use. This pretty much puts the Mojo out of contention because I can't wrap my head qround Linux. **** I have not heard any of these units. Based on end user reviews the Zenith and Antipodes are neck/neck. The Zenith seems to be more popular, and there is more info/pro reviews accessible online. I haven't read any reviews or comments that have differentiated the sound differences between the Z se and the Z standard. I believe the difference is silver wire and that Mundorf caps are used in the PSU plus a little more here and there, but not too certain. I think the 'limited' 100 is bologne. It seems that you can always order, but the few dealers I spoke with have one in stock for 'various' reasons. If I had to make a decision right now I would likely get the Standard Zenith with the open mind of getting the SOtM Ultra/Paul Hynes PSU to relieve some of the heavy lifting from the Zenith, run Roon core to SOtM direct to my TotalDac reclocker. I believe this would easily surpass any benifits gained by the 'se' at a lower cost. If I were to go Antipodes, I would apply the same logic and go for the ex @ $4100.00 and add the SOtM/Paul Hynes PSU. Please share your thoughts at this stage. Congrats on the MSB!

Yes it is a tough choice. I like the fact that the Antipodes is brand new to market technology. Their new circuit and power supply is apparently even better than their prior stuff which was exceptional.

Benjamin at Mojo and many others have told me running HQ as a player and Roon for music management is the best result even with no upsampling. (I plan to run bit perfect.) When I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago he was in the HQ Player/Roon camp not JRiver and felt Windows with AO was slightly better than Linux. I would consider Mojo more seriously if he had a little bench strength.

You can run Roon on Innuos even with its proprietary player which is appealing but being able to bench mark HQ versus Roon as a player would be an advantage to Mojo and Antipodes. This is clearly not a static condition and being able to go with the best player over time would be nice.

With regard to SOtM, I presume you are talking about running Roon Core on the Zenith or EX and using the Ultra to run USB to your TotalDac. That makes sense but I am only looking for optimized Ethernet as my MSB has a built in Renderer that goes straight to I2S.

Well I guess I am going to have to flip a coin.......

 

[Empirical Audio]

Antipodes is a server optimized for USB playback. Have used it with great results at shows. The Master Clock was always in the USB interface, not the server. Never tried the Ethernet version. Why not just buy a renderer and use a computer? There is no advantage to a server IMO with Ethernet.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[Pb Blimp]

Never said anything about doing up-sampling...I have 70,000+ tracks and I gotta say that based on the speed I get now with Roon an i3 or i5 processor isn't going to cut it TODAY let alone down the road as Roon gets fatter. Thinking it is nosier vs. knowing it is are 2 different things. Roon isn't recommending an i7 for no reason....if the Nucleus+ had a loop thru and the Femto card it would be the way to go.....just saying.........

BTW..What are u going to do today with no MSB Roon renderer? I'm waiting for it LOL

Ya I was not saying you were going to upsample; I was saying using a high powered, high voltage processor (according to many) has an impact on SQ. Some are willing to pay that price for upsampling or faster music management when they have a big library. You are apparently the former not the latter. Of course Roon says to use a i3 and up because Roon now has upsampling but you can certainly run Roon with a low voltage processor if you don't use the upsampling capability and that is preferred by many.

MSB is sending me the Quad USB port as a loner for a few weeks. Still beats listing to DCS.

 

[Pb Blimp]

Antipodes is a server optimized for USB playback. Have used it with great results at shows. The Master Clock was always in the USB interface, not the server. Never tried the Ethernet version. Why not just buy a renderer and use a computer? There is no advantage to a server IMO with Ethernet.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve,

Regarding Antipodes, have you looked at the new topology which is designed to isolate and optimize the Ethernet direct to DAC connection in the CX and EX. They were not in my OP because of exactly what you said about USB and that has all change with the new product line coming in March.

Regarding your view about using any old computer and a renderer, why don't you go back to the beginning of this (my) thread and re-read when you tried to make this point the first time. There is an entire world out there which is designing products around direct to DAC ethernet connection using ethernet isolation technique that DISAGREE with your view on this (Melco, Innuos, Fidata, Antipodes, Mojo etc.) Maybe the rapid development by the rest of the market into the Ethernet DAC space is wrong and you are right but I wanna address what they are doing in this thread. Is that ok?

 

[Empirical Audio]

Steve,

Regarding Antipodes, have you looked at the new topology which is designed to isolate and optimize the Ethernet direct to DAC connection in the CX and EX. They were not in my OP because of exactly what you said about USB and that has all change with the new product line coming in March.

Regarding your view about using any old computer and a renderer, why don't you go back to the beginning of this (my) thread and re-read when you tried to make this point the first time. There is an entire world out there which is designing products around direct to DAC ethernet connection using ethernet isolation technique that DISAGREE with your view on this (Melco, Innuos, Fidata, Antipodes, Mojo etc.) Maybe the rapid development by the rest of the market into the Ethernet DAC space is wrong and you are right but I wanna address what they are doing in this thread. Is that ok?

I personally found it much easier and cheaper to optimize Ethernet compared to USB. If these devices are much better than a router or WIFI adapter powered from an earth-grounded fast LPS, I will be surprised. I guess I need to try one.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[asiufy]

Review for the Innuos Zenith SE (limited edition -- all sold out unfortunately)

http://innuos.com/uploads/cms/Reviews/HiFi+/HIFI+156_Innuos_LR.pdf

 

[Pb Blimp]

Review for the Innuos Zenith SE (limited edition -- all sold out unfortunately)

http://innuos.com/uploads/cms/Reviews/HiFi+/HIFI+156_Innuos_LR.pdf

Well you snooze you lose. He who hesitates is lost. You gotta shoot while the ducks are flying. Analysis paralysis and so on.....

 

[asiufy]

Yup. Word got out they were running out, so I placed 2 orders, and when I tried to order a 3rd, just a few days later, they were all gone.

 

[KeithR]

My guess is Innuous comes out with a new server at Munich - you might find a dealer with a favorable trade-in policy inn the interim if that's the direction you choose.

 

[nonesup]

I personally found it much easier and cheaper to optimize Ethernet compared to USB. If these devices are much better than a router or WIFI adapter powered from an earth-grounded fast LPS, I will be surprised. I guess I need to try one.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

If the renderer already has its ethernet port with galvanic isolation and this is so fantastic that an optimized server like my Melco would not bring advantage over a noisy computer, because you say to put the router an LPS? Following your reasoning, leave the high-noise switched-mode power supply, which will be filtered by the ethernet port of the render.
My experience and my many tests is different. I do not know the reason, but I assure you that in the network there is a lot, a lot of noise and every step I take:
a. Switched feed source from NAS to LPS
b. NAS to Melco
c. Switch generic to Aqvox switch,
has improved the sound.

 

[Pb Blimp]

The plot thickens......View attachment Innuos_ZENith_Statement_A5_Flyer_2018-04 _WEB.pdf

 

[asiufy]

Apparently, A/Bs were conducted at the Innuos room (w/ YG/Audio Research/Aqua Formula), between a well broken -in SE and the prototype Statement. And (again, it seems, as I wasn't there), the Statement was clearly quite a bit better, specially in sound staging, with considerable widening and deepening.

Oh well... Hope to have a look at it in Munich!


cheers,
Alex

 

[Pb Blimp]

Apparently, A/Bs were conducted at the Innuos room (w/ YG/Audio Research/Aqua Formula), between a well broken -in SE and the prototype Statement. And (again, it seems, as I wasn't there), the Statement was clearly quite a bit better, specially in sound staging, with considerable widening and deepening.

Oh well... Hope to have a look at it in Munich!


cheers,
Alex

Alex, I realize you where not there but did you happen to hear if the comparo was USB or Ethernet?

 

[asiufy]

Alex, I realize you where not there but did you happen to hear if the comparo was USB or Ethernet?

Probably USB, as the Formula doesn't do Ethernet (for now).

 

[sbo6]

Apparently, A/Bs were conducted at the Innuos room (w/ YG/Audio Research/Aqua Formula), between a well broken -in SE and the prototype Statement. And (again, it seems, as I wasn't there), the Statement was clearly quite a bit better, specially in sound staging, with considerable widening and deepening.

Oh well... Hope to have a look at it in Munich!


cheers,
Alex

It would be interesting to compare the Innuous to Urendu + LPS.

 

[Empirical Audio]

So it is your position that the ethernet isolation topology, linear power supplies, and grounding schemes of the devices I referenced are of no consequence to SQ through a Dac's renderer ethernet port?

No, I never said this. I said the computer does not matter.

For Ethernet, here is the hardware that matters:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156409.msg1680342#msg1680342

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[nonesup]

Well, I suppose the network isolator will depend on the system.
I bought an EMO HD E70, and it's for sale on WBT at half the price.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Well, I suppose the network isolator will depend on the system.
I bought an EMO HD E70, and it's for sale on WBT at half the price.

It needs to be 0.5m from the source and 2m from the destination. That is the sweet-spot.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[asiufy]

It would be interesting to compare the Innuous to Urendu + LPS.

Hi,

I don't know about that specific "Urendu", but I've had clients who upgraded from a 4-5 box setup, with all the individual doo-dads, for a single Zenith (non-SE), and is very happy with it.

Since I offer a 10-day trial period, folks are able to try them in their systems, and see how it compares.

cheers,
alex