Interesting article about one's ability to hear/listen

[RichDavis]

Let me preface this before you read the article. I have been in social situations, like most of us, where we are encouraged to do something to be part of the crowd, so to speak. I have also been to high end audio stores trying to evaluate expensive audio products where the sales person offers me a glass of wine to sit back and enjoy listening to an audio system. I just read an article on another audio related site where the journalst was preparing to audition some new product and they had posted a variety of photos of the event and there were bottles of alcohol present in the photo, and it kind of gave me the impression that the journalist may not be performing such evaluation properly as their hearing WILL be affected by the consumption of alcohol. For me, I don't drink, I haven't for many years and it was due to the fact that I just didn't like the taste or the after effects of even small amounts, and I'm hoping others will follow the trend as I found myself not being able to hear properly when under the influence.

But I was poking around the internet and stumbled across this article and I thought it would be something that EVERYONE should be interested in knowing about what can negatively effect our ability to listen/hear.

So, read the article and think about your daily lives and how it might effect your hearing. The ability to hear is precious, and we as humans do things unknowingly that effects our ability to hear properly and maybe people will think about this subject seriously and not poke fun at it.

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6815/7/4

 

[Joe Whip]

I don't drink any alcohol either as I just don't like the taste. I would be a bit leary of any opinions on hifi where they serve alcohol for the reason set forth in the article. I have experience with people who otherwise have fine hearing having some difficulty with speach recognition after a glass of wine.

 

[Ethan Winer]

The article addresses hearing loss versus frequency after drinking. This is very different from the way alcohol changes the perception of music. Often, having a drink or two makes music sound better because it improves your mood. But after three or four drinks music can sound worse. Music can also sound worse an hour or two after only one or two drinks. So yeah, I can see why sellers of expensive gear want to get you a little tipsy. Like a hot chic at a party, they want to get you in the mood.

--Ethan

 

[mep]

Well, we are already divided up in audiophile land by digital vs. analog, tube vs. sold state, box speakers vs. planers/stats so we may as well as divide up by drinkers vs. teetotalers. This will give us one more thing to fight about.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Sounds like the purpose of the thread was only to get people to not imbibe at all. A lofty goal, but I can do without the preaching.
Sade and a glass of Pinot Noir works or me!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Well, we are already divided up in audiophile land by digital vs. analog, tube vs. sold state, box speakers vs. planers/stats so we may as well as divide up by drinkers vs. teetotalers. This will give us one more thing to fight about.

And potheads vs. non-potheads.

 

[RichDavis]

And potheads vs. non-potheads.

And which group do you belong to?

The fact is that alcohol is a psycho-active drug, it does hit your brain and effect's one's ability to use sound judgement the second you drink it. I mean, there is a warning label on each bottle, and it causes any number of illnesses including cancer, kidney disease, liver disease, etc. etc. If you want to make joking comments, go right ahead, it just shows one's level of matureness.

Drinkers vs non-drinkers has already been done for a long time, but the reality is that it effect's one's ability to use good judgement, and it does effect your hearing. Yeah, if you NEED a drink to loosen up and enjoy music, that's one thing, but I don't need a drink to loosen up. But to judge one piece of audio gear vs another? I would hate to listen to mastering jobs done by a drunk or stoned mastering engineer.

 

[RichDavis]

Well, we are already divided up in audiophile land by digital vs. analog, tube vs. sold state, box speakers vs. planers/stats so we may as well as divide up by drinkers vs. teetotalers. This will give us one more thing to fight about.

All the article was discussing was the effects of alcohol and ability to listen. It wasn't discussing something to fight about. But in my past, the people that have a drinking problem are usually the ones that fight about their right to drink, which typically indicates someone has an alcohol addiction of some sort and they have to come to terms with it, or they don't. But it shouldn't be something to fight about, it's just an article citing evidence suggesting it's not good for the auditory system in the short term and potential long term effects. I'm sure there are more studies done on the subject and I thought this would be a great forum to post it since audio fans need to have excellent hearing abilities to enjoy the equipment we buy and the music we listen to.

 

[MylesBAstor]

And which group do you belong to?

You first.

The fact is that alcohol is a psycho-active drug, it does hit your brain and effect's one's ability to use sound judgement the second you drink it. I mean, there is a warning label on each bottle, and it causes any number of illnesses including cancer, kidney disease, liver disease, etc. etc. If you want to make joking comments, go right ahead, it just shows one's level of matureness.

Really? Last time I looked it's 2014 and ROH is legal. What does 30 u/l ROH relate to? 30 people in a study with all the variables they pointed out. Best of all, as we in science say, one experiment is no experiment and one study is no study. Let's see a larger study.

And what about the studies showing the health benefits of say a glass of wine? And hyponatremia can kill you too?

Drinkers vs non-drinkers has already been done for a long time, but the reality is that it effect's one's ability to use good judgement, and it does effect your hearing. Yeah, if you NEED a drink to loosen up and enjoy music, that's one thing, but I don't need a drink to loosen up.

That's being awfully judgemental isn't it? If you're so concerned, why don't you just talk about listening to loud music period? Or how drinking leads to people's loss of inhibitions and eating themselves silly too.

But to judge one piece of audio gear vs another? I would hate to listen to mastering jobs done by a drunk or stoned mastering engineer.

LOL.....and how about those rock musicians? Bet they were all real sober when in the studio. How about the times Jerry Garcia forgot the words onstage? Hell Kurt Cobain barely made it onstage for the Nirvana Unplugged album. So I guess you don't listen to those either. Or how many of your favorite jazz musicians were shooting up? So I guess you don't listen to a lot of music.

 

[RichDavis]

I don't drink any alcohol either as I just don't like the taste. I would be a bit leary of any opinions on hifi where they serve alcohol for the reason set forth in the article. I have experience with people who otherwise have fine hearing having some difficulty with speach recognition after a glass of wine.

From playing in nightclubs, i usually was stoned cold straight even during the time when I would drink on occasion and when you are put in that environment, it's just amazing how people change their behavior and then you usually get some drunk yelling loudly asking you to play Freebird when the band isn't even playing rock music. I'm sure rock musicians that typically play out of tune are usually stoned or drunk. I've seen a lot. They turn the music louder expecting to hear the music better. It's funny but also sad at the same time.

Have you ever been to a charity auction? I've been to a couple where they are serving up free booze to loosen people up so they bid higher on auction items. It's the oldest trick in the book. Politicians use it to extract more money from their crowd of people, etc. etc. Sales people use it as a means to help close deals, etc. etc.

 

[thedudeabides]

How boring Mr. Davis.

I enjoy having a drink or two and listening to music.

First measurement based bias and now alcohol.

What's your next judgmental thread / post? I know you want to enlighten all of us but the question you must ask yourself is who cares?

I really wish you would stop your preaching. It's becoming so predictable.

GG

 

[GaryProtein]

When you want to evaluate anything, music or the equipment, you do not want to have any drug induced affects.

Alcohol--wine, scotch, beer will definitely affect your senses and your judgement.

Its another thing to be under the influence listening to music if your intention is purely to have a good time.

 

[MylesBAstor]

All the article was discussing was the effects of alcohol and ability to listen. It wasn't discussing something to fight about. But in my past, the people that have a drinking problem are usually the ones that fight about their right to drink, which typically indicates someone has an alcohol addiction of some sort and they have to come to terms with it, or they don't. But it shouldn't be something to fight about, it's just an article citing evidence suggesting it's not good for the auditory system in the short term and potential long term effects. I'm sure there are more studies done on the subject and I thought this would be a great forum to post it since audio fans need to have excellent hearing abilities to enjoy the equipment we buy and the music we listen to.

Where was the long term data??? There was none nor did they cite any other research to support that speculation! I don't know how that statement got past the reviewers

The effect of alcohol on hearing was also found to be reversible in the short term [11] but long-term permanent threshold changes cannot be excluded.

 

[RichDavis]

Where was the long term data??? There was none nor did they cite any other research to support that speculation! I don't know how that statement got past the reviewers

The effect of alcohol on hearing was also found to be reversible in the short term [11] but long-term permanent threshold changes cannot be excluded.

Data for which statement? What was mentioned in the article? They don't know, but everyone knows that our hearing worsens as we get older, right? Well, how much is effected by the use or none use of alcohol? They haven't done those studies as it's much harder to do long term studies of hearing as related to alcohol, but I'm sure if it causes us to play music louder, then that might be attributing to hearing loss. Normal listening levels are typically in the 80 to MABYE 95dB. But if we turn the music up to higher levels, then it's going to eventually catch up to us. I generally don't turn my music up that much. Only every ONCE in a while and it's for short periods of time. But I generally have it around 80-85dB and check dB levels all of the time. I kind of like my hearing, don't you?

 

[Robh3606]

Interesting article. I have been drinking socially for 45 years. Been doing rock concerts same amount of time. Just got my hearing checked and it's normal as in no discernible age induced hearing loss. The audiologist was surprised, I was happy. There needs to be more testing done. I am just not that lucky.

Rob

 

[GaryProtein]

My AudioControl RTA/dB meter is running all the time. It's important to be aware of the volume because as the hours go by, the volume usually goes up as the ear becomes accustomed to the volume of the music being played.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Data for which statement? What was mentioned in the article? They don't know, but everyone knows that our hearing worsens as we get older, right? Well, how much is effected by the use or none use of alcohol? They haven't done those studies as it's much harder to do long term studies of hearing as related to alcohol, but I'm sure if it causes us to play music louder, then that might be attrat ibuting to hearing loss. Normal listening levels are typically in the 80 to MABYE 95dB. But if we turn the music up to higher levels, then it's going to eventually catch up to us. I generally don't turn my music up that much. Only every ONCE in a while and it's for short periods of time. But I generally have it around 80-85dB and check dB levels all of the time. I kind of like my hearing, don't you?

Don't duck the subject. I gave you the statement they made in the paper and there's no evidence to support their contention. They don't know. Period. You keep asking for science, measurements, etc. You're trying to blame one of zillions of environmental variables. You can't have it both ways. That sentence should not have been allowed. Plain and simple.

You should also find whether that's a first, second or third rate journal. You can look up their rating. Nowadays there's way too many third rate journals around. That's why promotion committees are very careful about what publications are accepted in the quest for tenure.

Perhaps you should look up the studies relating to jackhammers, senses and the erronenous conclusions reached years ago. Second only to TD Lysenko's work.

Re? How many people don't listen to music and lose their hearing?

Just like your cardiovascular fitness goes down with age whether your exercise or not. It's called aging.

 

[Robh3606]

My AudioControl RTA/dB meter is running all the time. It's important to be aware of the volume because as the hours go by, the volume usually goes up as the ear becomes accustomed to the volume of the music being played.

Yes I have had an SPL meter of one sort or another since I was 17. Almost the whole time in the hobby. I tend to be careful as well. I have thresholds I just won't go past as far as average readings are concerned. Peaks I am not concerned about. I can hit and have measured over 120db peaks in my HT in the LFE

Rob

 

[GaryProtein]

120 dB in LFE is practically harmless. It's the 95-100+ dB in the midrange and high frequencies that will deafen you in time.

 

[RichDavis]

Don't duck the subject. I gave you the statement they made in the paper and there's no evidence to support their contention. They don't know. Period. You keep asking for science, measurements, etc. You're trying to blame one of zillions of environmental variables. You can't have it both ways. That sentence should not have been allowed. Plain and simple.

You should also find whether that's a first, second or third rate journal. You can look up their rating. Nowadays there's way too many third rate journals around. That's why promotion committees are very careful about what publications are accepted in the quest for tenure.

Perhaps you should look up the studies relating to jackhammers, senses and the erronenous conclusions reached years ago. Second only to TD Lysenko's work.

Re? How many people don't listen to music and lose their hearing?

Just like your cardiovascular fitness goes down with age whether your exercise or not. It's called aging.

They just mentioned it can't be ruled out. Take it up with the person that conducted the study. I'm just reading it. If you want to get all hot and bothered over something, go right ahead. Fact is we all lose hearing over time naturally.


Myles, you are bringing up other issues trying to prove something that's unrelated to the article. Yes, we all age. But if you lose your ability to hear something while under the influence, you might want to be aware of it, and if you care, then maybe you might want to do something about it.

Why are you arguing over this article? I don't see any problem with it?

I didn't duck the subject, I don't think you read the article carefully. It said it can't be ruled out of the long term how much alcohol has an effect on one's auditory system. And?

So what if they don't know. Well, go ahead, take your chances. Just understand that it will effect your hearing while under the influence. SIMPLE, STRAIGHT FORWARD and TO THE POINT. Accept it and deal with it the way you want to.

If you have a problem with article, then take it up with the person that wrote it. Argue with them about it.