Trinity DAC

[Audiocrack]

Looks like Trinity room at CES got The Absolute Sound's best of show - but don't
think they had the dac there - just pre and phono...

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-2014-show-report-analog/

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-show-report-loudspeakers-15-25k/

A real pitty and lost chance imho but indeed the Trinity cd-drive/dac was not demonstrated at CES. I suppose - and it was already mentioned earlier in this thread - two dacs in the same room from the same distributor was somehow not possible. Might have something to do - as was suggested earlier - with the payment of the room.

 

[MasterChief]

I now see that my favourite audiostore in Stockholm have the Trinity DAC for demo. I think I must pay them a visit.

http://shop.audioconcept.se/sv/artiklar/trinity-dac.html

 

[Audiocrack]

I now see that my favourite audiostore in Stockholm have the Trinity DAC for demo. I think I must pay them a visit.

http://shop.audioconcept.se/sv/artiklar/trinity-dac.html

Let us know when you do. Interesting to hear your impressions.

 

[esldude]

I have been thinking about this filterless approach. Wouldn't a lack of reconstruction filtering reduce the ability of the DAC to resolve timing differences or phase in the output waveform?

 

[Don Hills]

I have been thinking about this filterless approach. Wouldn't a lack of reconstruction filtering reduce the ability of the DAC to resolve timing differences or phase in the output waveform?

In theory, yes. In practice, the Trinity DAC isn't putting out 44.1 K samples per second. It's putting out (from memory) 2.8 million samples per second. At this rate, a few feet of cable is going to have enough capacitance to form a reasonably effective filter.

 

[Ken Newton]

I have been thinking about this filterless approach. Wouldn't a lack of reconstruction filtering reduce the ability of the DAC to resolve timing differences or phase in the output waveform?

Linear interpolation is a form of filtering. It can be implemented digitally using a simple moving average filter algorithm, or in analog using delayed summation, as Trinity apparently does. Whichever implementation is chosen, linear interpolation trades an improved impulse response for a degraded frequency fresponse. having a poor FR is highly problematic for any filter intended for samoled waveform reconstruction. To accurately reconstruct a sampled audio waveform, the ultrasonic image frequencies must be sufficiently rejected by the reconstruction filter. In CD format, where the desired signal bandwidth (20KHz) is located close to the Nyquist limit (22.05KHz), the first image frequency will appear at about 24.1KHz = (44.1KHz - 20KHz). For accurate CD format waveform reconstruction, that 24.1KHz first image should be rejected by upwards of 100dB, while passing 20KHz flat. Linear interpolation is poorly applied to performing such sharp rejection.

 

[Alrainbow]

Here is some food for thought, we all want the best DA converter for our music reproduction. What about the AD converter in the recording as we have no choice in this I know. But surely it must be considered if we are to get the best reconstruction possible. Just a thought .

Al

 

[esldude]

Here is some food for thought, we all want the best DA converter for our music reproduction. What about the AD converter in the recording as we have no choice in this I know. But surely it must be considered if we are to get the best reconstruction possible. Just a thought .

Al

Would be nice if some demo recordings were done with several AD's all being fed the same signal and the files available for comparison. Seems I ran across something like that doing PCM vs DSD a few months back. I just don't have a DSD capable DAC. Of course would be nicer if the results were so close as the same it didn't matter.

 

[wisnon]

Ddidnt Bruce Brown do this for DSD recently with 4 different ADCs and Charles Hansen did similar for DSD vs PCM…but using the same QA-9 ADC.

 

[esldude]

Ddidnt Bruce Brown do this for DSD recently with 4 different ADCs and Charles Hansen did similar for DSD vs PCM…but using the same QA-9 ADC.

Okay, yes found the DSD comparisons. Which is a good thing to do. Other than I don't have a DSD playback compatible DAC.

Charles Hansen did a DSD vs PCM recording of some LP's. Again I don't have DSD so I couldn't compare. It had some other problems for a good comparison chief among them the level of the two versions was a few decibels different. And they weren't recorded concurrently, but first one and then a second replay for the other. Presumably that wouldn't change much with the equipment he was using for playback.

 

[analog brother]

digital is too complex for me - i will stick to records!

 

[esldude]

digital is too complex for me - i will stick to records!

I don't know about that. Keeping an analog rig in fine tune is sometimes a never ending task.

I think the Trinity DAC is equivalent to the Goldmund LP rig.

 

[MasterChief]

Trinity DAC (and pre and phono) made is debut in Sweden on the Stockholm High End Show. Audio Concept had, as usual, one of the best sounds at the show with the mighty MBL. There was definitely a buzz about Trinity and a lot of curious people. Audio Concept has an extremely high reputation in Sweden as a distributor and store. If they display some new gear they always get the attention. Nagra served as a transport and the turntable is the Nordic Concept.

(Not my photo, taken from P-pan at Euphonia Audioforum)

 

[XV-1]

I don't know about that. Keeping an analog rig in fine tune is sometimes a never ending task.

I think the Trinity DAC is equivalent to the Goldmund LP rig.

Do you mean limited edition, out of reach of most audiophiles, soon to be out of production and no longer available with non existent spare parts?

 

[Elberoth]

An interesting comment re Trinity DAC was posted in another thread by Steve Nugent of Empiracal Audio:

Being another DAC manufacturer, I read this with much interest. My experience since the advent of digital audio has been that jitter was initially the main deficiency and then later with the advent of oversampling Sigma-Delta D/A chips and lower jitter solutions, digital filtering became the main deficiency of digital audio. Thus the recent interest in older NOS D/A chips.

My own strategy is to use minimal or very high frequency digital filtering with a modern D/A chip and do more filtering in the analog domain. Its a kind of Sigma-Delta/NOS hybrid approach. This strategy delivers a much more lifelike analog sound. If I back-off only a little on my analog filtering I can start to see stair-steps. I don't care about this distortion because downstream preamps, amps and speakers filter it out nicely. Adding only a little more analog filtering impacts audio quality. I have found that the best way to determine the right amount of filtering is by ear, after all that is the final instrument that we use.

If the Trinity DAC designer can deliver a more natural sounding digital filtering technique, he is on the right track and understands the true limitations of current DAC technology. There are very few digital filters, both embedded and custom that sound natural.

(...)

Steve N.

BTW - one of my friends who heard the Trinity DAC has also bought one. He was a long time dCS user - he owned the Elgar Plus full-stack for many years (since its itroduction ~ 2002), than changed to Scarlatti DAC. After trying the Vivaldi, MSB Diamond full stack, Metronome C-8, Audio Note DAC-5 Signature - he went with the Trinity.

 

[Matrix]

Hi all,

although I am a long time reader of this forum this is my first post.

I would like start by thanking you all for the valuable information, knowledge and opinions I gathered here through reading your posts over the years.
I would also like to thank you for drawing my attention to the Trinity DAC.
I knew the brand but did not know their latest generation products like the DAC.

Well, it just so happened that I got a chance to listen to one last month.
I´m still asking myself if it was a blessing or a curse.

To summarize my impressions, in my subjective opinion the Trinity DAC right now is a game-changer in the rapidly growing DAC world.
Dietmar Bräuer has created something very special here.

I've auditioned a few high end DACs at home for long periods of time and also at showrooms (MSB Diamond+, DCS Scarlatti, Emm Labs, Metronome...).
All had their relative strengths and weaknesses, some had a little more air and resolution than others, some a slightly broader image, more speed, more bloom or +/- digital sheen or grain.
(At that point in time, my favorite was the MSB)
However, when you start hearing the Trinity you stop paying attention to those things.

Let me try to explain:
Although it has a very high resolution, letting me hear deep into the recording like no other DAC I've heard before, it doesn't throw it into your face like some.
It doesn't try to impress you with ultra high resolution, deep tight bass or huge dynamic swings.
You have all those things in spades (maybe even to a greater degree) but all that information just flows with the music in a cohesive manner like no other dac I've heard before (by far).

One other thing I think contributes to the listening experience as a whole is the absolute black silence.
I'm not talking about digital "black" silence here.
What I'm saying is that the Trinity on his own is utterly silent (very low noisefloor?) and that lets you perceive the smallest clues in the recordings that help to give the illusion you are there, on the recording location.

I won't bother you with more impressions or adjectives. Besides, my audiophile vocabulary is worse and much smaller than most.

As you can imagine after that listening session I couldn't forget what I heard. I knew I had to have one.

Well, after some serious (financial) considerations, I made the decision!
Since the last two weeks I have been the proud owner of a trinity DAC and I can say that my initial positive impressions only grew stronger with time.

I don't have the technical expertise some of you have here, to understand the technical principles upon which the Trinity DAC was built and frankly I don't care (and don't understand the objective of some of the discussions around it).
All I'm interested is in the end result and that my friends is stellar.

I also don't want to give you the impression here that I listened to all the high end DACs in the market.
For instance I've not listened to the Vivaldi stack. (I couldn't afford it anyway).

And I'm not saying it's the best DAC available right now (who can say that, considering all the subjectivity involved in the listening process) although I'm sure some of you will jump in here and say "well, since he owns it....".

The only advice I can give, if you are in the market for the best DAC in the same (or higher) price bracket of the Trinity, please go and try to listen to one for yourselves before making a decision.
Even in smaller systems it can be justified, considering the improvements it will bring to your listening experience.

Please forgive my enthusiasm with the Trinity DAC but I wanted to share my experience with all of you here in the forum.

PS I'm using the Trinity with a computer through USB (using a Totaldac USB cable) and with a Transport through SPDIF (AES/EBU). I think the USB solution has a slight advantage.
And before anyone asks, no, I'm not affiliated with the company nor have I any commercial interests related to it or any Trinity distributor.

Thank you all for your patience reading this long post.

 

[LL21]

Congrats! Sounds like we have another winner. I have little doubt it is excellent. I am most intrigued to hear the Trinity DAC myself, having spoken now with 2 people who are owners and whose ears I also feel I can 'calibrate'.

 

[Elberoth]

Matrix - congrats on your new DAC ! You have just witnessed what I've been enjoying since November at home. I also have tried all the DACs you mentioned at home (with the exception of EMM) and also found the MSB Diamond Plus to be my favourite - I actually bought one. Trinity however, is just a totally different ball game. It is so much better it is hard to put things into words.

If are using a regular computer, please consider at least sth like the Computer Audiophile Pocket Server (CAPS) v3 Lagoon:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/495-computer-audiophile-pocket-server-c-p-s-v3-lagoon/

it will bring big improvement vs a regular computer. Considering relative costs and imrovement it brings - it is silly not to buy one. I've been using a CAPS V3 Lagoon myself, but equipped with dual Teddy Pardo ultra low nosise linear PSUs, instead of the battery PSU (charging the battery is just too much hassle for me).

BTW - sharing your system context would certainly be beneficial to all readers.

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi all,

although I am a long time reader of this forum this is my first post.

I would like start by thanking you all for the valuable information, knowledge and opinions I gathered here through reading your posts over the years.
I would also like to thank you for drawing my attention to the Trinity DAC.
I knew the brand but did not know their latest generation products like the DAC.

Well, it just so happened that I got a chance to listen to one last month.
I´m still asking myself if it was a blessing or a curse.

To summarize my impressions, in my subjective opinion the Trinity DAC right now is a game-changer in the rapidly growing DAC world.
Dietmar Bräuer has created something very special here.

I've auditioned a few high end DACs at home for long periods of time and also at showrooms (MSB Diamond+, DCS Scarlatti, Emm Labs, Metronome...).
All had their relative strengths and weaknesses, some had a little more air and resolution than others, some a slightly broader image, more speed, more bloom or +/- digital sheen or grain.
(At that point in time, my favorite was the MSB)
However, when you start hearing the Trinity you stop paying attention to those things.

Let me try to explain:
Although it has a very high resolution, letting me hear deep into the recording like no other DAC I've heard before, it doesn't throw it into your face like some.
It doesn't try to impress you with ultra high resolution, deep tight bass or huge dynamic swings.
You have all those things in spades (maybe even to a greater degree) but all that information just flows with the music in a cohesive manner like no other dac I've heard before (by far).

One other thing I think contributes to the listening experience as a whole is the absolute black silence.
I'm not talking about digital "black" silence here.
What I'm saying is that the Trinity on his own is utterly silent (very low noisefloor?) and that lets you perceive the smallest clues in the recordings that help to give the illusion you are there, on the recording location.

I won't bother you with more impressions or adjectives. Besides, my audiophile vocabulary is worse and much smaller than most.

As you can imagine after that listening session I couldn't forget what I heard. I knew I had to have one.

Well, after some serious (financial) considerations, I made the decision!
Since the last two weeks I have been the proud owner of a trinity DAC and I can say that my initial positive impressions only grew stronger with time.

I don't have the technical expertise some of you have here, to understand the technical principles upon which the Trinity DAC was built and frankly I don't care (and don't understand the objective of some of the discussions around it).
All I'm interested is in the end result and that my friends is stellar.

I also don't want to give you the impression here that I listened to all the high end DACs in the market.
For instance I've not listened to the Vivaldi stack. (I couldn't afford it anyway).

And I'm not saying it's the best DAC available right now (who can say that, considering all the subjectivity involved in the listening process) although I'm sure some of you will jump in here and say "well, since he owns it....".

The only advice I can give, if you are in the market for the best DAC in the same (or higher) price bracket of the Trinity, please go and try to listen to one for yourselves before making a decision.
Even in smaller systems it can be justified, considering the improvements it will bring to your listening experience.

Please forgive my enthusiasm with the Trinity DAC but I wanted to share my experience with all of you here in the forum.

PS I'm using the Trinity with a computer through USB (using a Totaldac USB cable) and with a Transport through SPDIF (AES/EBU). I think the USB solution has a slight advantage.
And before anyone asks, no, I'm not affiliated with the company nor have I any commercial interests related to it or any Trinity distributor.

Thank you all for your patience reading this long post.

Thanks for sharing your Trinity dac experiences with us Matrix. They seem to concur with my own listening experiences. Btw, have you tried the Trinity cd-drive/transport in combination with the Trinity dac? You will probably pleasantly surprised how good this combo (usb connection) sounds.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi all,

although I am a long time reader of this forum this is my first post.

I would like start by thanking you all for the valuable information, knowledge and opinions I gathered here through reading your posts over the years.
I would also like to thank you for drawing my attention to the Trinity DAC.
I knew the brand but did not know their latest generation products like the DAC.

Well, it just so happened that I got a chance to listen to one last month.
I´m still asking myself if it was a blessing or a curse.

To summarize my impressions, in my subjective opinion the Trinity DAC right now is a game-changer in the rapidly growing DAC world.
Dietmar Bräuer has created something very special here.

I've auditioned a few high end DACs at home for long periods of time and also at showrooms (MSB Diamond+, DCS Scarlatti, Emm Labs, Metronome...).
All had their relative strengths and weaknesses, some had a little more air and resolution than others, some a slightly broader image, more speed, more bloom or +/- digital sheen or grain.
(At that point in time, my favorite was the MSB)
However, when you start hearing the Trinity you stop paying attention to those things.

Let me try to explain:
Although it has a very high resolution, letting me hear deep into the recording like no other DAC I've heard before, it doesn't throw it into your face like some.
It doesn't try to impress you with ultra high resolution, deep tight bass or huge dynamic swings.
You have all those things in spades (maybe even to a greater degree) but all that information just flows with the music in a cohesive manner like no other dac I've heard before (by far).

One other thing I think contributes to the listening experience as a whole is the absolute black silence.
I'm not talking about digital "black" silence here.
What I'm saying is that the Trinity on his own is utterly silent (very low noisefloor?) and that lets you perceive the smallest clues in the recordings that help to give the illusion you are there, on the recording location.

I won't bother you with more impressions or adjectives. Besides, my audiophile vocabulary is worse and much smaller than most.

As you can imagine after that listening session I couldn't forget what I heard. I knew I had to have one.

Well, after some serious (financial) considerations, I made the decision!
Since the last two weeks I have been the proud owner of a trinity DAC and I can say that my initial positive impressions only grew stronger with time.

I don't have the technical expertise some of you have here, to understand the technical principles upon which the Trinity DAC was built and frankly I don't care (and don't understand the objective of some of the discussions around it).
All I'm interested is in the end result and that my friends is stellar.

I also don't want to give you the impression here that I listened to all the high end DACs in the market.
For instance I've not listened to the Vivaldi stack. (I couldn't afford it anyway).

And I'm not saying it's the best DAC available right now (who can say that, considering all the subjectivity involved in the listening process) although I'm sure some of you will jump in here and say "well, since he owns it....".

The only advice I can give, if you are in the market for the best DAC in the same (or higher) price bracket of the Trinity, please go and try to listen to one for yourselves before making a decision.
Even in smaller systems it can be justified, considering the improvements it will bring to your listening experience.

Please forgive my enthusiasm with the Trinity DAC but I wanted to share my experience with all of you here in the forum.

PS I'm using the Trinity with a computer through USB (using a Totaldac USB cable) and with a Transport through SPDIF (AES/EBU). I think the USB solution has a slight advantage.
And before anyone asks, no, I'm not affiliated with the company nor have I any commercial interests related to it or any Trinity distributor.

Thank you all for your patience reading this long post.

Welcome Matrix, hope to hear more from you!