power conditioner
- Thread starter Jeffy
- Start date
FWIW.
48 volt 105AH battery - $3000 shipped
Charger $525
Inverter Exeltech XP2000 - $2000
Complete wiring harness with fused protection $1500
Torus RM20 - $4200, shipping $400 aprox.
Victron 3000 watt inverter approx $1150. Use this in place of the Exeltech.
48 volt 105AH battery - $3000 shipped
Charger $525
Inverter Exeltech XP2000 - $2000
Complete wiring harness with fused protection $1500
Torus RM20 - $4200, shipping $400 aprox.
Victron 3000 watt inverter approx $1150. Use this in place of the Exeltech.
Stability of the AC line Voltage and distortion of the AC waveform while under load.
As well as harmonic noise, max current delivery. I would love to get a spectrograph and look at the fundimental as well as harmonics from the inverter. They seem to be about $2500 for a basic one.
Measurements also include listening. Taking it to other locations and comparing to other power supplies at other homes. I have 2 reviewers, and 3 other serious audiophile local, with quality systems to listen at. Problem is, most people would rather spend $50,000 for a Stromtank. If they have the $15,000 to get one built up, they have the big money.
And for the most part, if you have a big system, I still really like using utility power properly. Maybe a few point source filters. Or a large wall mount. Amir is an anomaly with the issues he is having. But come on. Hes in Iran. Who knows whats gping on with electrical infrastructure there. My perception is, the biggest danger to audiophiles is the current climate of electrify everything. The electrical grids are straining and Brown outs are all to often. A Brown out or drop in voltage to say 90 volts or less is the real danger for a stereo.
'Harmonic noise' is the distortion I mentioned. 'Max current delivery' is how well the unit holds up and is able to maintain the output Voltage while under load.
If it does those things right, a unit that doesn't do as well simply isn't as good plain and simple. If an amplifier only sounds right when its fed a distorted AC waveform, something is wrong with it.
Our MA-3 amp was expected to load home electrical systems pretty heavily, is it is a 500 Watt triode class A OTL. Because AC power was likely to fluctuate with its use, the unit was designed with an internal AC power regulator in the power supply. The line Voltage could fall to 95 Volts and it would still make full power. Its not crazy hard to make such a device. If you're concerned about brown outs it would be the sort of thing you put upstream from the conditioner.
I have told you how to get a top one almost for free ...
IMO absolutely irrelevant, unless done in very strict and controlled conditions, that need a lot of time and serious work. I would not expect reviewers and local friends to be good partners for such job. In order to be considered a measurement listening needs independent valid statistics.
Remind me how to get a one for not a lot?
I am confident the people I know, as well as myself, when hearing a change, understand what happened and are able to decipher if is better or just different. And outside that, I am not going to support or follow through with something if I don't hear a positve change myself. AND have that validated by others. Sorry, but I am not one of those, Science only people.
Ralph, I have a question about Audioquest niagara 5000, they use capacitor for increasing transient current to load (they claim 90A), Do you know about the schematic circuit of these capacitors?
Niagara website : “
Niagara website : “
- Niagara Transient Power Correction: Transient Power Correction: Provides over 90 amps peak instantaneous current reservoir with reduced line impedance for current-starved power amplifiers, whether they incorporate linear or switching power supplies.”
As far as I can tell from a search, the living voice battery supply goes back all the way to 2004! Battery technology has come a long way since then.
I would not want to use lead acid batteries for audio.
The interior shots show a lot of chokes, so I imagine the cap is used as part of a filter. Being a passive unit, I would not call it a 'conditioner' since I have a pretty strict definition of that term (that most of 'high end audio' seems to not use). The 90A thing is mysterious to me: how would you measure that and what exactly does it mean? I was not able to tell from their website.
To test ampacity, arn't you using something as simple as a Sure Test that injects some current into the line and calculates the ability of the circuit to pass current. A #10 branch wire usually reads over 500 Amps. A Torus RM20 about 270 Amps.
What do you consider a filter Ralph? Don't caps and chokes smooth the waveform on the load side? Isnt that filtering? Don't they also blick noise in the mega and gigahertz range?
Caps and choke or inductor mess up the sine wave on the line side, from what I have measured. One reviewer had 2 Denali on a branch wire. I measured 15% thd on the branch at the panel. Talk about pollution from ones own home.
A filter might be a choke in series with the line to knock out higher frequencies. It can also be a choke and capacitor in series, placed in parallel to the signal path. Such a thing used on AC power would have to be robust! They may well not be able to block frequencies in the megahertz range and above, but honestly if that's a problem in your equipment, the equipment itself is at fault, not the AC power! Any audio circuit using tubes or transistor should have a thing called a 'stopping resistor' at the input of each amplifying device (tube or transistor) to prevent oscillation but also intrusion of radio frequencies into the circuit.
No. We're talking about a conditioner here, not the AC line itself. What you want to see is the output of the conditioner not show any Voltage drop as the current load is increased to its upper spec limit.
Batteries are both audible and have non-zero impedance, so they need filters and caps to sound ok just like a regular PS. No free lunch.
In most homes the passive Furutech NCF distributors are the best solution. I've compared Equitech vs my modded SurgeX at audio shows and the Equitech is not a noise filter, which is why they and Torus offer noise filters and (non-MOV) surge suppressors to go with their trafos. If you have really noisy AC power you need a decent EMI/RFI filter.
In most homes the passive Furutech NCF distributors are the best solution. I've compared Equitech vs my modded SurgeX at audio shows and the Equitech is not a noise filter, which is why they and Torus offer noise filters and (non-MOV) surge suppressors to go with their trafos. If you have really noisy AC power you need a decent EMI/RFI filter.
Arn't those power strip like $15k. Do they have an MOV in it too?.
Why would a power strip with a NCF duplex be a filter? That would be the same as saying, a ncf duplex in your wall is a filter. I do use a Furutech NCF Rhodium to my amps. I do like how it interacts with the metals on my power cords (gold). I have looked into stripping my RM20 of Hubbel and replacing them with Furutech. Voids warranty. And Torus might get angry with me. I don't want to damage that relationship. Too bad Furutech can't get a UL or CE certification. If they did, they could be used in other equipment.
$15k? MOV? No to both. Also, there's a UL marking right on the GTX receptacle I have in my hand. I have no idea why you think Furutech would sell a non-UL plug that an electrician couldn't use in many circumstances. Since it's a NEMA device I can't see why they'd put a CE mark on it, but idk.
The Hubbell receptacles hopefully aren't hospital grade. If so, they will damage a plated male plug. I often recommend Torus but just for their subpanels.
I mostly sell the e-TP609 NCF which retails for $2k and I offer my customers a discount. They have a Power Vault which is around $7k and the top-end PurePower 6 for $10k.
If you don't think NCF products are filters, check the before/after with an AC power quality meter and be prepared to be amazed. They may not be enough to tame noise at an audio show but they are enough for most homes, and because it's all passive there's no tradeoffs like a traditional EMI/RFI filter.
Receptacles and they way they are installed is exceptionally important because it's easily audible. The Furutech distributors use massive chassis and they offer a thick billet Al mounting plate for wall mounted receptacles. The e-TP609 NCF as well as the GTX NCF receptacles they use are the biggest bang for the buck in high end audio accessories ever.
IMO there are far too many gloried power strips with a slight amount of HF filtering in them masquerading as AC line conditioners.
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