Stereo Preamp and dual subwoofers

[orenatt]

Hello,

I need your help, My setup includes CH Precision L10 preamp, dual CH Precision M1.1 power amplifiers, Stenheim loudspeakers and Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer.

I want to add additional Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer to my setup but unfortunately there is not enough XLR outputs in the CH L10.

I checked another alternative such as VAC, Dartzeel, Robert Koda and soluo but I did not find more than two XLR outputs in their preamp.

any suggestions?
I read about external crossover such as Wilson ActiveXO but I’m not sure that this is the perfect option.

 

[Elliot G.]

you’re amps have a balanced input and output/ bypass
You can run a balanced cable out to each sub from each channel

 

[engadin]

Maybe consider instead REL 32 subs run from the high level outputs of the M1.1?

I personally would want to avoid active xo.
Imho this will inevitably ruin your high and midrange resolution.

 

[microstrip]

Hello,

I need your help, My setup includes CH Precision L10 preamp, dual CH Precision M1.1 power amplifiers, Stenheim loudspeakers and Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer.

I want to add additional Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer to my setup but unfortunately there is not enough XLR outputs in the CH L10.

I checked another alternative such as VAC, Dartzeel, Robert Koda and soluo but I did not find more than two XLR outputs in their preamp.

any suggestions?
I read about external crossover such as Wilson ActiveXO but I’m not sure that this is the perfect option.

Can't you use the M1.1 amplifier XLR balanced analog output (pass-through for amplifier daisy-chaining) ? I will free one of your preamplifier XLR outputs.

 

[ecwl]

Hello,

I need your help, My setup includes CH Precision L10 preamp, dual CH Precision M1.1 power amplifiers, Stenheim loudspeakers and Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer.

I want to add additional Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer to my setup but unfortunately there is not enough XLR outputs in the CH L10.

I checked another alternative such as VAC, Dartzeel, Robert Koda and soluo but I did not find more than two XLR outputs in their preamp.

any suggestions?
I read about external crossover such as Wilson ActiveXO but I’m not sure that this is the perfect option.

I don't understand. You don't have to use XLR for the subwoofer.

You could use XLR from L10 to M1.1 and then use RCA from L10 to the second Wilson Benesch.

The likelihood of the RCA to your subwoofer sounding inferior because you're not using XLR is very low.

Another aspect I don't fully understand is that most of the time, when people go from 1 subwoofer to 2 subwoofers, they usually have a stereo subwoofer arrangement where the subwoofers are fairly close to the speakers so you are only feeding the left channel to the left subwoofer and the right channel to the right subwoofer.

To me, the external crossover is there to solve a different problem. If you don't like the sound overlap between your subwoofers and your speakers, then adding an external crossover would allow you to cut off the very low frequencies to the Stenheim and let the subwoofer exclusively play those low frequency sounds. There is the additional benefits that your Stenheim woofers would have less distortion playing mid-bass and high-bass notes.

But in general, it is unlikely that the single Wilson Benesch is not giving you enough bass in terms of volume. The challenges are either room acoustic related or subwoofer crossover/phase delay setting related. Sure, dual non-stereo or stereo subwoofers can sometimes solve some of these issues and external crossover might solve even more of these issues. But in general, it is best to diagnose the issues with acoustic measurements first before going out there and buying another expensive subwoofer with an expensive external crossover. You might get lucky with the purchases and get great sound. Or you might have the same acoustic issues because your solution didn't address the underlying issues.

 

[orenatt]

As the IGX has parameters like gain, phase and frequency corner, it is fully adjustable in my room and should help both with having lower bass extension but also with correcting one of the room's mode.

 

[orenatt]

Adding subwoofer to stereo setup is big improvement and I’m sure that adding another one to stereo setup will be better and give perfect results, without RC it’s very complicated to calibrate the system.
in most of the ultra high end rooms the manufacturers use dual subwoofers, it’s doesn’t matter which loudspeakers you have.

 

[microstrip]

Adding subwoofer to stereo setup is big improvement and I’m sure that adding another one to stereo setup will be better and give perfect results, without RC it’s very complicated to calibrate the system.
in most of the ultra high end rooms the manufacturers use dual subwoofers, it’s doesn’t matter which loudspeakers you have.

Just add another Wilson Benesch IGX subwoofer following Jim Smith advice. If possible get someone knowledgeable to set it up or at less read the "Get Better Sound". An RTA or even a sound meter can help.

 

[sbnx]

The WB IGX has XLR, RCA and high level inputs (like REL). You can easily find high level interconnector with long leads. This is then connected to the speaker terminals of the amplifier. Or you can use a pair of XLR from the preamp and a pair of XLR pass through from the Amp as Elliot suggested.

I set up 4 WB IGX for a person who used the high level input on all 4 of them. This worked fine.

 

[orenatt]

Thanks for the help !
Do you know if there any options to connect two subwoofers to DartZeel or VAC preamp/amp?
I think about CH alternatives in the future with combination to Stenheim loudspeakers.

 

[heihei]

I use 2 WB subs, and feed the left sub the left channel signal, and the right, the right, i.e. 1 XLR to each (or RCA in my case). Not sure why you can't do this?
Alternatively, as others have said, use the high level (i.e. taken from the speaker taps on the power amps) to the iGX. This is WB's preferred method of hooking up their subs.

I would do everything you can to maintain the L10 - I think their pre-amps are the star of the CH show, so I'd struggle to think you'll find better.

 

[orenatt]

The main reason that I consider to replace my CH - I want to add warmth sound to my setup, the CH are great but I think that the combination between CH, Stenheim and Nordost cables give analytical sound.
another option is adding a tube system as additional to my CH and use switcher between the transistors and tube but I did not find high quality switcher that can switch between the tube electronics (e.g VAC Statement) and CH precision transistors electronics.

 

[heihei]

I recently heard Stenheim Ultime 2's driven by CH 10-series and it was definitely not analytical. Detailed, yes, but the music had a beautiful flow and naturalness to it. What is your front end?



FWIW I did not rate the M1 amps (nor A1) when I had them on home demo - I found them dull. The M10 seem to be in a different league - might be worth considering. If I had L10 and M1, I'd definitely be looking to change the M1, not the L10.

 

[Stevet]

The main reason that I consider to replace my CH - I want to add warmth sound to my setup, the CH are great but I think that the combination between CH, Stenheim and Nordost cables give analytical sound.
another option is adding a tube system as additional to my CH and use switcher between the transistors and tube but I did not find high quality switcher that can switch between the tube electronics (e.g VAC Statement) and CH precision transistors electronics.

I know that the subs from W-B are really expensive, but what you really need to solve your issues is four (4) subs (an array you might call it) and have someone who is expert set it up for you. Setting up a four sub array, which is really what is needed, is complicated and takes a person who has great experience and expertise and the right equipment. If you wish to save money you do not have to have the W-B subs (which are great subs, but again, expensive at about 30k each). I have researched this and am in the process of getting this done myself. What really seems to work is four passive subs (the size of the box and speaker for each passive sub depending upon your room and areas attached to your listening room, i.e. the totality of the volume the speakers and sub must fill). You then need a controller/equalizer with maximum flexibility in the analogue domain and four amp channels, one to each sub. You can use one quad amp, or two stereo amps or four mono amps. Contact James Romeyn (for the subs, amps and controller/equalizer) and JR Boisclair for the set up. I think that you will be amazed at what they can do for you.

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks for the help !
Do you know if there any options to connect two subwoofers to DartZeel or VAC preamp/amp?
I think about CH alternatives in the future with combination to Stenheim loudspeakers.

Ask Sterling to set up your CH Stenheim for you he is good at this combo

 

[Stevet]

I know that the subs from W-B are really expensive, but what you really need to solve your issues is four (4) subs (an array you might call it) and have someone who is expert set it up for you. Setting up a four sub array, which is really what is needed, is complicated and takes a person who has great experience and expertise and the right equipment. If you wish to save money you do not have to have the W-B subs (which are great subs, but again, expensive at about 30k each). I have researched this and am in the process of getting this done myself. What really seems to work is four passive subs (the size of the box and speaker for each passive sub depending upon your room and areas attached to your listening room, i.e. the totality of the volume the speakers and sub must fill). You then need a controller/equalizer with maximum flexibility in the analogue domain and four amp channels, one to each sub. You can use one quad amp, or two stereo amps or four mono amps. Contact James Romeyn (for the subs, amps and controller/equalizer) and JR Boisclair for the set up. I think that you will be amazed at what they can do for you.

Let me add that you can do all of what I am suggesting for less than the price of one W-B sub, and I believe get a better result. You can really make your system sing and save money. I also agree with the comment above that you should be looking to change out the M1 and not the L10.

 

[Stevet]

The main reason that I consider to replace my CH - I want to add warmth sound to my setup, the CH are great but I think that the combination between CH, Stenheim and Nordost cables give analytical sound.
another option is adding a tube system as additional to my CH and use switcher between the transistors and tube but I did not find high quality switcher that can switch between the tube electronics (e.g VAC Statement) and CH precision transistors electronics.

I also think that if you get your sub situation sorted out that you may well have the added warmth/texture that you are seeking. Try that before you go to the expense of changing out the L10, which is a very good piece by all accounts. As part of the sub set up you will also want to get your main speakers set up properly with footers for all speakers which really do their job (EVP's, Carbides or otherwise).

 

[lstehle]

To add more warmth, have you tried to lower the amps's global feedback ratio?
Trying other cables might also be a good way to voice you system towards warmth. The Nordost cables are great, but very analytical. So if you're more after warmth than detail, I would try something there.
As a user of 1 Wilson Benesch sub (the original Torus), currently providing foundation to my Magico S1 MK2, I wonder what a second sub adds in your opinion.
Also, I use the high level input, dire try connected to the speaker binding post of my amp.
That's indeed the way WB advise to use their sub.
Alternatively, like other mentioned before, you can used the XLR path through of your M1.1.
This way, you only use 1 of the 4 output connector of each channel of your L10, which is the best way to go.