Router Optimization for Audio Quality

[Brucemck2]

Hi, what do you think of Dejitterit Switch X?
It can be used as a router as well.

The Switch X is a great product. The designer starts with a sound platform and then adds hard-core engineering to make it better. (You can get a sense for that by watching some of the videos on his website for the Switch X and AppleTV X.)

 

[Azh123]

I am very interested in the subject of this thread, thanks @agisthos ! I jave bought a Ubiquiti EdgerouterX to sit between my ethernet home network and a fiber to ethernet adapter, followed by the Xact S1. I am stuck, however, at the first step: I plugged power in, and ethernet from my pc into eth0. I went to network settings and set IP to manual, IPv4 and IP 192.168.1.5. Click "save" and get a nondescript error: (translated from dutch) "cannot save IP settings. Check one or more settings and try again". I searched the internet but I cannot find the problem or solution (I tried different IP adresses). Does anyone know what I am doing wrong? Can I acces this menu with admin rights somehow, would this be the problem? And does it matter that I am now disconnected on this pc from the rest of my network, because the ethernet socket is now occupied bu the Edgerouter? Thanks!

 

[agisthos]

There are two ways to use this device. As the router/modem itself, i.e you enter your ISP username/password into it so it connects to the internet directly via PPPoE thought your home broadband device. Or sitting downstream of your internet router as a separate LAN. The setup wizard asks you which way you want to go.

I do have some step by step screen shots for a non IT person to configure this device, but only of the first method - i.e your cable/broadband/internet box, straight into the ER-X using it as the router/modem.
I believe this way is simpler as its only one box needing config. Anything else will be too complicated for this forum. But some will need more output ports and flexibility.

 

[l_santista]

Hi, thanks for creating this topic, very timely for me. 3 years ago a fellow audiophile/dealer tried to convince me of the benefits of adding the Edgerouter X to my network. I believed in him but as many was put off by its non plug and play nature. Because of other projects in life I was basically these 3 years without any upgrade in my hi-fi at all, but this Friday this changed with the adddition of the Edgerouter X SFP (got the SFP version to be future proof when I get a fiber able switch or streamer, but not using fiber so far). Configuring it and changing to a subnet mask /28 (thanks for @Marcin_gps and other at the Xact N1 topic for the tips) was not hard , it took a bit longer to accomplish other customizations, but only because of my dumbness and little familiarity with Linux based OS.
@Azh123 why did you use 192.168.1.5? I'm sure you have tried 192.168.1.2 or others, but just checking, did you always get the same error message? also just checking, did you have the "Use the following DNS server addresses" checked without filling it with any addresses? (not that I know that it would work with auto DNS enabled, but this is how I did and it worked.

the following I will post to try to help others in general, sorry if this is all to basic (or wrong), but are the config steps I did.
After you access the CLI and login (bear in mind your password will not appear as you type it on the command line, not even the "XXXXXX" one could expect), just type:
configure
set system offload hwnat enable
set system offload ipsec enable
commit
save

BTW I was able to find these basic config commands in several forums (non audio related) and some YT videos, so I'm confident Im not doing anything wrong to post it here, but please point me otherwise anyone.
I disabled some ports and went on to try internet connection, all going fine. Wasn't hard to find my streamer on the new wired network ; at this point I had modem->Edgerouter->audiophile switch->PC(my humble server).
Then, under DHCP server under my (only) subnet 192.168.1.0/28 (even though I don't understand why the DHCP protocol does not use the same default gateway "1.1" but some other time will read about it) , I went to "actions" (at the right), "configure static map", "create new mapping" and and assined an IP to my streamer (but not to my PC). Finally, I disabled IPv6 and some offsite router controlling features under System "Configuration Management & Device Maintenance" , but I do not recommend that unless you know it is OK for you. I did not create a static route under the routing sub menu for any device, nor did I create VLAN for my audio gear, more on this point later...

Then went to listen to music with a local player (HQPlayer Client, yep..) streaming Qobuz content; smooth, played from the first try. At $110 I payed for the ER SFP in my country, this is the cheapest upgrade I ever did, period. Im not a good describer and dont intend to A/B test against my previous TP Link archer router, but I'm willing to say noise floor (I have used Matthew Halsall "A far away place" as benchmark for this for years) and the analogue feeling were improved, maybe 5-10%, who knows? I'm using the provided powersupply, and just learned (from the same person from the beggining of this post) that the ER SFP will accept a 12V (instead of the standard 24V supply) if PoE is not being used! Great bonus tip, right? can anyone confirm and comment? Ok, now I wanted to control HQPlayer via Roon on my phone (or via JPlay as I intend to do after Xmas when my yearly Roon subs ends and I migrate to JPlay). As expected, it didn't work, as my old (wifi) router was still connected to my modem, so the networks weren't the same and Roon didnt find my PC as server. What to do? some advanced configuration maybe? well, I did what any dumb, tired person would do and changed the cable sending internet to this router from my modem to the switch the ER was feeding. Voila, my cellphone found the PC and I was all set; didn't even have to configure a new wifi network as I slightly feared. It even had a bonus benefit, I added the new IP address of my PC (under the ER net of course) as HQplayer on Roon and it connected again and is working "fine" (well, most of the time) as a controller for HQP again, after one year that Roon had lost control over HQP (no matter how many times I power cycled everything or added HQP again, but whatever that's another topic).

So in all I spend maybe 2h30.. totally worth it. A couple other considerations/doubts if anyone can step in;

is there a way to access my old router OS now (why do I want to do that? maybe to disable 5Ghz wi-fi and other configs) other than by changing lan cables again (old router to the moden or to the PC)? the TP link default gateway doesn't work anymore, and the methods I found online seem easy but they all require messing with the cables again.

most important: will creating a VLAN in my case really provide further benefits? let me add a bit of context: Im sure most of us have more complex home setups than I do. It is a simple, small apartment, with basically no smart devices. So the only thing the ER is providing internet via LAN directly is the switch, and everyhing the switch is connected to is the PC, the sreamer, and the wifi router. The wifi is used basically for my cellphone (and my girl's). TBH, the wifi router is also feeding my smartwatch and a wired connection to the TV (the TV works so bad with wifi even though it is all close in the same room) but a barely use the TV and have it unplugged for now). That's it; should I still expect a separete VLAN "just" for my audio gear improve the sound? Im sure I can't hear anything different if I disconnect my garmin watch to the wifi; and I sure don't want to use a different (VLAN) for the cellphones, since I (supposedly) would lose the hability to find my PC server on them either from whatever software I use as a controller from my phone. Even if I drop HQP use in the future, it doesn't change the fact that it is a very simple network in a small apartment. Maybe in the future if those other life projects finally work out and I move to a bigger apartment I could revisit this.

 

[Rexp]

Assigning static IP in the router and streamer fundamentally improves sound, try listening to the drumming on this vid with and without static IP:

 

[matthias]

Assigning static IP in the router and streamer fundamentally improves sound

Yes, for example the swedish manufacturer Lejonklou does recommend it as well:

https://www.lejonklou.com/tips/how-to-set-kalla-to-fixed-ip-for-improved-performance/

 

[agisthos]

Yes, for example the swedish manufacturer Lejonklou does recommend it as well:

https://www.lejonklou.com/tips/how-to-set-kalla-to-fixed-ip-for-improved-performance/

Interesting Lejonklou says to set the streamer device's IP outside the router IP range, not within it.

 

[audiobomber]

Interesting Lejonklou says to set the streamer device's IP outside the router IP range, not within it.

That is what I was told as well, assign a number outside the range used by the router to avoid duplicate IPs. In my system for example, the router assigns addresses in the range 100-199. My streamers are configured to receive two-digit static addresses.

 

[Ampman]

Is it better to fix an IP address on the streamer only or set the same fixed IP address on both the router and streamer?

Thanks

 

[audiobomber]

Is it better to fix an IP address on the streamer only or set the same fixed IP address on both the router and streamer?

Thanks

I believe it's preferred to assign static addresses in a network audio system so that the receiving device doesn't need to sort out which IP it needs from all the others that are being broadcast. The theory is that sorting the desired IP from the rest requires extra processing, which can generate noise. That is how I heard it anyway. Not sure how much difference it actually makes.

I use static addresses for my streamers because I've found it's more reliable than dynamic. With a dynamic address, the control apps seemed to lose contact with the streamer at times, in between listening sessions.

 

[Ampman]

Thanks yes I understand the theory behind it and I think it makes a difference...

I have already set a static IP on my router pointing to my streamer.

But I'm just trying to understand if I also need to set the same static IP on the network settings of my streamer as well.

Is it better set on BOTH devices or just one?

 

[kennyb123]

The theory is that sorting the desired IP from the rest requires extra processing, which can generate noise. That is how I heard it anyway. Not sure how much difference it actually makes.

DHCP has a “lease time” setting. It is “the duration a device is allowed to use an IP address assigned by a DHCP server before it must renew or request a new one”. Typically it’s 24 hours on home networks. So in that case once a day - and only once a day - the client will act on the expiring lease. In most cases the renewal is successful, but occasionally another device will sneak in and grab it. It takes a split second for the client to query DHCP.

I imagine what could potentially generate noise is how the rest of the network reacts to the IP being changed. But again this would only happen, at most, at the lease time interval. And only in the rare case where another client was able to snag the IP.

 

[sbo6]

Exactly right. And the benefits heard in a “$1M+ ultimate hi-end system” may not have as great of any impact in systems costing a fraction of that. A tremendous budget like that leaves lots of room for addressing far more harmful sources of noise. Not really informative either without hearing how some other well-regarded audiophile networking products worked in that same system.

Exactly how does implementing "other well-regarded audiophile networking products" any more valid than this gent's friend's audiophile networking product results, especially considering this entire thread is pure opinion with no A B A testing?

 

[sbo6]

DHCP has a “lease time” setting. It is “the duration a device is allowed to use an IP address assigned by a DHCP server before it must renew or request a new one”. Typically it’s 24 hours on home networks. So in that case once a day - and only once a day - the client will act on the expiring lease. In most cases the renewal is successful, but occasionally another device will sneak in and grab it. It takes a split second for the client to query DHCP.

I imagine what could potentially generate noise is how the rest of the network reacts to the IP being changed. But again this would only happen, at most, at the lease time interval. And only in the rare case where another client was able to snag the IP.

Default DHCP leases are commonly default 72 hours and the amount of traffic is so momentary, minimal and statistically unlikely to occur exactly when you're listening to music, it's trivial and meaningless.

 

[agisthos]

If you set your devices with static IP's, sometimes you can stream music from a NAS or music server even without a router, just being connected to the same switch. I used to do it with an Oppo digital transport and Qnap NAS.

 

[matthias]

Typically it’s 24 hours on home networks.

The default on my network is one week.

 

[kennyb123]

Exactly how does implementing "other well-regarded audiophile networking products" any more valid than this gent's friend's audiophile networking product results, especially considering this entire thread is pure opinion with no A B A testing?

I asked Microsoft Copilot the following question about your comment: “Does it appear that my argument was misrepresented?” The reply was priceless:

[edited for brevity]

Conclusion: The reply did misrepresent your argument. You were stressing the limits of anecdotal evidence in ultra‑high‑end systems, while the response reframed it as you claiming other products are inherently more valid. If you want to clarify, you could restate that your concern was about comparability and context, not about product validity.

 

[audiobomber]

I'm glad that Audiophile Style has banned people from posting AI quotes.

 

[kennyb123]

I'm glad that Audiophile Style has banned people from posting AI quotes.

I trimmed it down, so I hope it's less objectionable. I always wonder what the best approach to follow is when someone misrepresents my argument. I thought seeking a third "person" to weigh in might help make a stronger argument. Plus it helps others to know they can use AI to ensure that they aren't misrepresenting someone's argument.

Also I don't agree that all AI should be banned. What I'd actually like to see is AI integrated into the forum software. It now has the ability to warn someone that they might be misrepresenting an argument with their reply.

 

[sbo6]

I asked Microsoft Copilot the following question about your comment: “Does it appear that my argument was misrepresented?” The reply was priceless:

[edited for brevity]

Conclusion: The reply did misrepresent your argument. You were stressing the limits of anecdotal evidence in ultra‑high‑end systems, while the response reframed it as you claiming other products are inherently more valid. If you want to clarify, you could restate that your concern was about comparability and context, not about product validity.

I don't want to read AI's interpretation, I want your response. If I wanted an AI response I would've asked it myself. ;-)