I agree with the SL-1000R , not with the SL-1210 MKII. I can say that because I have the two turntables.
Can a Technics SL-1200G challenge the state of the art?
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It does look that way doesn't it? To really know for sure you'd have to see what's beneath the arm board. From the top though, the SL1000R looks like an SP10 mounted in a box with an arm board added. If the arm board is not rigidly coupled to the plinth (the bit holding platter) then the machine is vulnerable to colorations induced by vibration.
Ralph, are you referring to external vibrations, to internal generated by the motor, or to both?
Cheers,
one would hope if the Technics/Panasonic company and engineers went to the trouble of designing and manufacturing a top flight turntable the plinth would be also a significant consideration.
But , who knows.?
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Exquisite, reference-class direct drive turntable system, the SL-1000RE-S uses the SP-10RE-S motor unit with a coreless direct drive motor that was developed for the SL-1200G and further improved to provide both high rigidity and reliability. The high-sensitivity tonearm achieves high...
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With my VPI Classic 3, i have some rumble if I listen the music at a high volume.
With the Yamaha GT-5000, I have some rumble too.
With the Technics, even with the SL-1000R, I have no rumble...incredible, even at a high volume...
With the Technics SL-1210 MKII, the rumble is under the rumble of the two turntables with belt.
Yes
I agree! They got it right in the SL1200G. But I think the pressure to make the SP10R look like the old ones was a bit too great, so it has the same weakness in that regard as the original SP10s. They were designed to be dropped into a radio station console, with the arm mounted separately. But if the base on which the arm is mounted is able to vibrate in a different way from that of the surface of the platter, you'll have some sort of coloration since the arm will transduce the difference.
That is why the coupling between the platter bearing mounting and the base of the tone arm must be absolutely rigid and absolutely dead (non-resonant).
Yes
I agree! They got it right in the SL1200G. But I think the pressure to make the SP10R look like the old ones was a bit too great, so it has the same weakness in that regard as the original SP10s. They were designed to be dropped into a radio station console, with the arm mounted separately. But if the base on which the arm is mounted is able to vibrate in a different way from that of the surface of the platter, you'll have some sort of coloration since the arm will transduce the difference.
That is why the coupling between the platter bearing mounting and the base of the tone arm must be absolutely rigid and absolutely dead (non-resonant).
Ralph, can you give some examples of turntables where the base of the arm mount and the platter surface are able to vibrate in the same way? I would think the bearing, the platter matt, and various material differences would not make that possible. Also vibrations from different sources travel a different rates and would reach the platter surface or LP surface at a different time from when they hit the base of the tone arm. And then there is the tone arm bearing.
Ideally, shouldn’t the contact patch at the vinyl and stylus edge, not be reacting to different vibrations? Or is it sufficient for the bearing mount and tone arm mount to be vibrating in sync?
That is how our model 208 was built.
Also the 1200G of course.
The platter bearing should have no slop, nor the bearings of the arm. If either does all bets are off, since the errors/colorations induced will likely dominate measurable and audible results.
I've said this many times; the mechanical problem is very similar to the steering and suspension of a car. If there is an slop in the steering or suspension, it will make the car unsettling and/or dangerous to drive. This is how you keep the stylus riding properly in the groove.
If there is vibration, it is affecting the base of the platter and that of the arm in the same manner. Having played around with this idea, and also that of doing something like making sure the base of the arm is far more damped than that of the plinth, I can tell you that in using recordings for which I also have the master tapes, the 'table that was as I described was better able to play bass and exhibited a more relaxed authoritative presentation, especially when the volume was turned up. Its not perfect; some frequencies may have the arm at a very different portion of the waveform than that of the platter, which is why I mentioned that damping must also be used.
I've also gone to considerable length to damp the platter itself; actually did that first, which started me down this path. The improvement in bass impact was immediately apparent. BTW Technics bothered to install a damping system on the SL1200G platter.
For these tests I also used an equipment stand mounted on bearings, with a custom anti-vibration platform on top for the turntable.
I noticed in my LP mastering system that the same concepts were employed. A proper stand which sat on adjustable points. That in turn supported an anti-vibration platform on which the LP mastering lathe was mounted. There was no bearing slop anywhere in the system, between the platter and the mount for the cutter head. If they could do that in 1950 you'd think we'd be able to do that too, and we can.
The only way the base of the arm support and the surface of the platter can vibrate in the same way is to place them on the rod.In this case, the whole thing resonates in only one direction, not three as with any plate shape.I am attaching a picture of a turntable that I made about 40 years ago. It was a very good turntable.
Attachments
Musical instruments made from rods. Vibration can be in different phases along the length of the plinth, the plinth must be rigid and dead. There also needs to be mass, since the more mass the harder it is to get it moving. That is why our plinth was machined of solid aluminum 3/4" thick.
Solid aluminum 3/4" thick plate resonates like hell in all directions! I wrote a nice example above of what the solution is. Probably no one imagines what little things affect the sound of a turntable.
To the former, it can if you don't do anything about it. The latter statement is simply false.
I am picturing myself back on the boilerplate ice with the skis chattering to the point one would put rosary beads into the mittens and gloves.
They were sorting out skis around the same time as turntables were also getting their high-Q resonances tamed.
…and others just used Linn decks, because the vibrations were deemed as “being good” by the Scots.
Where?
Surely someone imagines it?
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