Agree , In this instance there is a firm foam insert that surrounds the unit entirely , holding it completely secure within the heavy duty birch ply shipping crates … As an aside the quality of the AC birch shipping crates is so good that a friend of mine repurposed a number of his crates and turned them into a horn loaded bass horn !
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
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I´ve had many offers through the years to work in the audio business in one capacity or the other, but you describe all the reasons why I´ve stuck to the hobby in a pure personal capacity
having to prioritize the professional bit would ruin the hobby for me
that´s why I don´t "have to" anything
having to prioritize the professional bit would ruin the hobby for me
that´s why I don´t "have to" anything
We don't need theory to know this obsolete argument is absurd. What matters is the global system performance, not the particular devices, and the feedback issues were solved long ago in the previous century.
Anyway, some JFETs are more linear than tubes - their square-law behavior is actually closer to the ideal triode equation than most triodes themselves.
But in fact, the overall sonic behavior isn’t identical — tubes have other nonlinearities and dynamic effects that JFETs don’t replicate. Fortunately!
Good point. And some other comments were on point about characteristic of SS that Ron sort of callled out inaccurately. SS does more than just bass.
I fully appreciate what you saying. I have inverters as well as batteries in my room. I have some lugs and cable. But I have not gotten to putting things together as my mind is elsewhere.
Here is how my mind works these days regarding audio. I want the listening to music I do, and the playing with components I do, and the configuring the stereo stuff I do, to remain an 1) enjoyable 2) hobby. I have a limited audio "battery."
I've spent a lot of hours the last three weeks preparing for the premiere of The HiFi Five: getting familiar with working with the streaming platform; figuring out how to connect to YouTube; planning the show with the regulars; starting the new YouTube channel for it; figuring out the audio podcast channels; writing and working on the press release; preparing for, scheduling and completing a full dress rehearsal of the first episode; preparing and practicing my opening for the premier; and contacting candidates to be our first guest.
Yesterday alone I spent an hour or two here on WBF, and at least three hours talking audio with five different personal friends. This I enjoy because it feels like an extension of my pure hobbyist side.
Then there are the incoming calls, messages and texts from WBF members and Facebook "friends" wanting to talk audio and get audio advice.
Then there are emails and calls from the WBF advertising sponsors I have introduced to What's Best Forum.
This morning I spent some time working on the questions for this Wednesday's episode with our first guest.
So I dedicate a huge amount of time to a wide variety of audio things before I can even think about walking into my listening room and actually enjoying my stereo and actually enjoying listening to music. If my audio "battery" has been depleted by other activities related to audio before I even walk into my listening room, then I am no longer in the mood just to enjoy my stereo and and sit down and listen to music purely as a hobbyist.
So much of my time is dedicated to audio in one way or another, directly or indirectly, that I really don't want to walk into my room and listen to music unless I'm genuinely in the mood for it, unless all the pilot lights are glowing green. I learned last year that I want to be careful not to adulterate my enjoyment of high-end audio and listening to music purely as my hobby with all of the other activities I do in audio.
All of the non-hobby activities come first, because those are sort of responsibilities*, and there are people who sort of depend on what I'm doing. So if all I want to do as a hobbyist for a particular day is pull the preamp out of the crate and put it on the table, and look at how nice it looks, then, by gosh, that's all I'm gonna do.
*I realize these are "responsibilities" which I have undertaken voluntarily. I realize I could go back to circa 2015 and just be a pure hobbyist playing with my system and listening to music.
It's not just about liquidity, it is about articulation. For example, Beethoven's Choral Fantasy begins with a piano introduction. After a grand opening with flowing arpeggio-like figures there are, at about 50 seconds in, delicate zigzag figures. On her album Credo, which features the work, Helene Grimaud plays these zigzag figures very distinctly and pointedly, creating a magical contrast to what had come just before. This interpretative finesse by the pianist comes over very well on my Octave tube pre/power combo (which is anything but 'slow' sounding).
This distinctiveness of the passage with zigzag figures and the magical contrast was just not there on two systems with (expensive) solid state amps. In comparison, the passage sounded pedestrian and just not very special; all the piano playing sounded more alike. Granted, the system context was different from mine as well, but clearly there is an articulation with my tube amplification combo that was lacking on those solid state systems.
I am not saying that the darTZeel is like that (I have no idea how it would present this passage), nor that any tube amp will pass the test (not all tube amps will, for sure, certainly not the slow, syrupy ones). However, it is clear to me that solid state is not always necessarily an advantage.
There is nothing obsolete or absurd about physical truth. Feedback was not solved…it’s not solvable as it is fundamentally flawed. Also, you cannot fix issues with 99% of amps, which are Class AB, with feedback because zero crossing distortion cannot be eliminated this way…only running in Class A works.We don't need theory to know this obsolete argument is absurd. What matters is the global system performance, not the particular devices, and the feedback issues were solved long ago in the previous century.
Anyway, some JFETs are more linear than tubes - their square-law behavior is actually closer to the ideal triode equation than most triodes themselves.
But in fact, the overall sonic behavior isn’t identical — tubes have other nonlinearities and dynamic effects that JFETs don’t replicate. Fortunately!
Do you read what you write? JFETS are more linear than tubes? I guess pentodes and teteodes are less linear …used as such, but not the triodes that have been selected by decades of listening . Again physics rears its ugly head to tell you, no JFETS, following a square law, are not more linear than triodes, following an approximate 3/2 law. Given that 1 is true linearity, 1.5 is closer to 1 than 2 is, wouldn’t you agree?
You are right the sonic behavior of a JFET is not the same, which puts the lie to your above statement of them being more triode than a triode. The distortion characteristics not only deviate from an ideal triode they deviate from real ones.
I own a JFET phonostage from Phasemation that sounds very musical and nice tone…until I compare it to my Silvaweld or Decware phonostage…then you hear why Phasemation uses tubes in their top models…
That part I understand.
It took a Google search to remind me that in a 2008 review of the ZYX Artisan Phono Stage I wrote "The Artisan did show a touch of that extended, airy tonal bloom and liquidity sometimes associated with tubes, but its sound did not cause me to think of it in terms of technology." I think that's the only time I used "liquidity" (or "liquid") to describe hearing a component, and the Artisan is a solid-state component.
So, Mike, taking your angle (reality as a reference, which I applaud) I'll ask do you/we hear liquidity from a live voice or instrument? Does anyone have an example or a way to hear the attribute in reality?
Thinking now I may not know to what sound the liquid attribute or characteristic applies. Could it be a psychoacoustic phenomena that only results from listening to a stereo? Or perhaps 'merely' a 'personal subjective' response of a listener to certain sounds. I have no idea of what is meant by 'sonic cue' other than a sound that triggers emotions or memories.
Nice way to obscure the subject, moving to crossover distortion ...
Too many posts of experts telling how the feedback problem was properly solved, no need to return to the subject.
You are using a childish argument - things are no so simple. I suggest you read experts such as John Curl on the subject, I am not loosing more time with your claims. Interested readers can easily find such information.
You simplistic logic is flawed, as usual.
The final ridiculous argument - a particular manufacturer choice and individual preferences in particular cases.
We are in 2025, parroting arguments of the 1970's and 80's does not bring anything worth discussing.
I will take John Curls opinion seriously when I hear something he designed sound really good. Same with Nelson Pass (I have yet to hear his SIT amps, so there is hope…). Until then…he can claim what he wants the Sonics tell a different story.
Classic fallacy from you called, “appeal to authority”. I don’t care how many experts claim the problem is solved, when I can hear the problem is NOT solved.
You can call my arguments simplistic all you want, neither I nor physics cares about your flawed opinion.
The arguments are still valid. And while some manufacturers have made great strides in reducing some of most pernicious sound quality issues with transistors, they issues are not gone Just reduced to more acceptable levels. A perceptive listener though can still clearly hear them.
FETs used in true Class A can sound very good, my current amp is testament to that as well as the KR Audio amps I had in the past. But it it is not the same sound and the amp needs real triodes to give the overall sound quality.
I have come to the conclusion that you are simply not critical enough and accept too wide a window of what “sounds good”. If you try to be more critical you might hear what I am talking about.
Sure, you are so perceptive and critical, and everyone who disagrees with you is not.
Great way to "win" an argument.
Good question. IMO liquidity suggests mainly absence of artifacts that can affect the flow of music or conditions that can suggest it. My best experiences of it were using particular associations of gear in specific conditions, not any specific gear. For example SonundLab speakers with hybrid Pathos amplifiers or the Wilson WAMM system a few years ago.
Curiously I will not associate it with Ron's main objective. The feeling of presence in the room is usually associated by sound engineers with specific equalization and distortions. But yes, the gentle harmonic distortion of tubes is known to enhance presence by thickening upper harmonics.
IMO Ron will be always dependent of particular recordings and mastering engineers in is evaluation of systems - short stereo delays (50–150 ms) or slapback echo can create a sense of dimension without audible echo.
This is a reasonable criticism of me, too. In descriptions and reports I don't limit my window of what "sounds good" to only my personal preferences.
In other words, if I can hear and understand what other people like about the sound I can characterize it as "sounding good" even if I don't personally love the sound myself.
This is a subjective hobby. There are very few objective realities, not least for the reasons that audiophiles (i) adopt different sonic cues, (ii) to capitalize on different system sounds (iii) to achieve different sonic and philosophical objectives.
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No, I just pointed our readers the sources in way they can assert our different points of view.
Sorry I was not aware you got the Nobel price in physics this year. I had read something about the tunnel effect ...
Your particular preference in a particular case again...
Ok, thanks . Just learned a new synonymous for "critical listener" - fanatic lover or dealer of a specif brand of high-end equipment.
But yes, my views on stereo are most of the time open minded - there is life outside my preferences in this hobby.
i have used a few words to describe this general concept of liquid or liquidity. maybe grain-less or continuous get closer to my intension as these two words don't infer some sort of added warmth or smoothing or rounding. gear can be grain-less, gear can be continuous, and not add warmth.....or very, very minor amounts of it.
and honestly i am a tube guy (Tenor OTL's top of my heap), but prefer the advantages of solid state, and in my experience finding that sort of grain-less and continuous sort of presentation in the darTZeel has been significant for me. other solid state comes up short of this standard to my ears. a matter of over-processed sound. admittedly there are a few newer solid state amplifiers which may match or surpass the darts. just not heard them....yet.
real life is completely grain less. it's completely continuous. there is not sort of feeling of processing to it....also real life has zero added warmth or rounding.
so maybe we might use grain-less (continuous is less clear) to describe that more complete way real life comes thru.
for instance; in 2018 when i did my amplifier head to head for myself; other solid state was not on my agenda. not in my thinking. mostly due to this issue. i found the VAC too liquid, too warm, but still wonderful. i thought the Lamm was closer to real life and not overly liquid and warm. still a tiny bit dark and limited in big music, but more right and real to my ears.
i don't want to get too far over my ski's and exceed my musical vocabulary; but as far as examples when i listen to my string quartets this grain less aspect is very significant. gear that misses the balance point and either is overly warm and rounded (one man's liquid?) or sounding less than completely grain-less and continuous does not make my cut. no place to hide listening to lots of string quartets. it either can do it or not.
of course; finding grain-less music reproduction is not only preamps and amps. it's a whole system issue; and even resonance and acoustic distortion. so system development is part of the picture. but an amp missing that presentation balance point is hard/impossible to overcome.....for me. plenty of nice sounding solid state amps for sure; but they are degrees less grain less to my ears.
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Mike, I pretty much heard what you describe on my visit yesterday to a GP Monaco/Wadax Studio/CH Precision/Stenheim set-up.
My fears going into the day, of a likely dry, leading edge type of sound we're totally alayed, what I heard instead was total fluidity and no hint of discontinuity or grain that I could perceive.
Of course this wasn't just the simple choice of gear, but also the setup (courtesy of Stirling Trayle), attention to noise mitigation and power as well.
The choice of a very neutral TT and choice pressings did a lot to help.
But this was my first real exposure to a system with maximum resolution and total flow, what I'd call "juice".
I know exactly what you mean, Brad. I lived with the Lamm M1.1 for a while with my Magico Q3s. Vladimir did a great job with those hybrid amps and they have the power to drive some tough speakers, but they do not sound as good as his SETs. That is where the magic is. Just the music.
To be fair, I have heard some amps with transistors that sounded rather magical...but they were all single ended and not Class AB or even A PP. One was the NAT Symbiosis SE that I owned. It was a hybrid where the output stage was a single big MOSFET per channel, with tube input and driver. That output transistor was fully regulated by another big MOSFET (a bit like Lamm does with the ML2, where one 6C33C regulates the other 6C33C). The amp was enormous and drew enormous power (800 watts continuously) but what made it unliveable was that it took a full 2 hours of running and playing music to sound up to its potential. Before that it was just ok and then BLAM it sounded ridiculously good. Still, took too long and got too hot...so bye bye.
KR Audio amps also sound wonderful and have single ended transistor front end with tube output (reverse hybrid). I owned and loved their sound for many years. Still like them to this day.
Now, my Aries Cerat Protos is a tube/FET single stage, compound element amp. After fully breaking in it now sounds like a very good SET with slightly less bloom than most of them. It is actually more like having a big bottle SET in terms of power and grunt with the cleanliness and transparency of a 2A3 or 45 based amp.
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