Ron’s New System

[Mike Lavigne]

What was the weight and fullness like with the VAC?

in my room the VAC Statement 450 amps were objectively slightly on the rounded and slow side when pushed in contrast to the dart 458's and even to the Lamm ML3's. OTOH the big 450's had lots of weight, drive and power, were musical and sweet, and were not noisy.

there was some easily heard artifact overlay there. but obviously it's someone's cat meow. the right answer.

not heard VAC preamps except at shows.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, people choose solid-state to rock the house. People choose solid-state for maximizing resolution. People choose solid-state for maximizing low frequency dynamics.

People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

This is a very poor post. Apart from a strawman argument, it is also confusing strawman objective of solid state power amp with SS preamp (which is subject of the discussion)

SS preamps will be required to match impedance with certain amps, they provide clarity, can provide increased dynamic range not just low frequency dynamics, and at times better drive.

 

[LL21]

Theory says that the triode is the most linear of all amplification devices, such that distortion is suitably low even without feedback. All transistors have higher non-linearity and require feedback to have usably low distortion, but the application of feedback has detrimental sonic side effects.

I am no techie, having read the Robert Koda preamp and amp manuals which say no negative feedback or servo loops at all. I also read in the HiFi+ Review, it describes the RK amps as "...only uses N-type (or NPN) transistors; no Positive-Negative-Positive transistor...no negative feedback (local or global). There are also no servos in the Takumi K-160 and no modulation on the power supply at all. All of which is very at odds with the logic-controlled powerhouses that dominate much of today’s high-end." And distortion measurements appear quite good.
Distortion (at 1kHz) 0.0009% at 5W into 8Ω; 0.005% at 50W into 8Ω. Could this be possible? You are far more technical than I.

 

[Holmz]

This is a very poor post. Apart from a strawman argument, it is also confusing strawman objective of solid state power amp with SS preamp (which is subject of the discussion)

SS preamps will be required to match impedance with certain amps, they provide clarity, can provide increased dynamic range not just low frequency dynamics, and at times better drive.

Well it’s like the Wild West…
At some point I would have thought that there were standards for minimum output impedance and input impedance.
But nooo.

 

[morricab]

I am no techie, having read the Robert Koda preamp and amp manuals which say no negative feedback or servo loops at all. I also read in the HiFi+ Review, it describes the RK amps as "...only uses N-type (or NPN) transistors; no Positive-Negative-Positive transistor...no negative feedback (local or global). There are also no servos in the Takumi K-160 and no modulation on the power supply at all. All of which is very at odds with the logic-controlled powerhouses that dominate much of today’s high-end." And distortion measurements appear quite good.
Distortion (at 1kHz) 0.0009% at 5W into 8Ω; 0.005% at 50W into 8Ω. Could this be possible? You are far more technical than I.

As I have no idea what Robert Koda is really doing, it’s hard to comment on their design.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, people choose solid-state to rock the house. People choose solid-state for maximizing resolution. People choose solid-state for maximizing low frequency dynamics.

People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

the goal for me is not to maximize liquidity in and of itself. it's realism. that i'm getting the feeling from the music that it's really happening. i'm captured. i want to hear what is in the music, in the recording, not something warmed over to make it more palatable.

the question, of course, is just how much of the 'liquidity of vocals' is real, and how much is over the top artifact as pleasing as it might be in the context of our reproduced music listening and satisfaction?

when people speak to me that is live, when i hear unamplified singing vocals that is live, and those are my references. that's not liquid, it's real. anything more or less is somewhat different, even if i prefer it. which is ok too.

does each voice sound as genuine and distinct as real life, or do they all sound more alike than real life? does each vocal have aspects that are alike? telling differences is not everything, but it's part of what makes it real. if that is the goal.

in any case this matter of degrees of liquidity for vocals is also just personal taste and where we each want to be. and i'm not pooh poohing anyone else's preference. only that this is not a matter of one is absolutely right or wrong. what tubes do for vocals is not a fixed point. i have a tubed phono and a tubed tape repro and then my ss dart phono, and ss Wadax analog stage. all of them seem to be in the non artifact range to my ears. as are my dart pre and amps.

 

[Ron Resnick]

the goal for me is not to maximize liquidity in and of itself. it's realism. that i'm getting the feeling from the music that it's really happening. i'm captured. i want to hear what is in the music, in the recording, not something warmed over to make it more palatable.

the question, of course, is just how much of the 'liquidity of vocals' is real, and how much is over the top artifact as pleasing as it might be in the context of our reproduced music listening and satisfaction?

when people speak to me that is live, when i hear unamplified singing vocals that is live, and those are my references. that's not liquid, it's real. anything more or less is somewhat different, even if i prefer it. which is ok too.

does each voice sound as genuine and distinct as real life, or do they all sound more alike than real life? does each vocal have aspects that are alike? telling differences is not everything, but it's part of what makes it real. if that is the goal.

in any case this matter of degrees of liquidity for vocals is also just personal taste and where we each want to be. and i'm not pooh poohing anyone else's preference. only that this is not a matter of one is absolutely right or wrong. what tubes do for vocals is not a fixed point. i have a tubed phono and a tubed tape repro and then my ss dart phono, and ss Wadax analog stage. all of them seem to be in the non artifact range to my ears. as are my dart pre and amps.

This is an interesting and wonderfully conceptual discussion!

Liquidity is for me a "sonic cue." It is not an end goal in and of itself. My end goal is "making it seem as realistic and believable as possible that there is a live person in my room, singing to me live."

Unless being alive is inherently unreal or warmed over or an artifact inadvertent homogenization is not a concern for me.

 

[Argonaut]

Absolutely if its not glued. 3 screws is a weak box for something that weighs over 100 lbs and does not appear to have an inner skeleton.

Rex … Not that it matters , however where on earth did you come up with 3 x screws ? I can assure you that I have a most substantial bag of screws left over from my AC shipping crates, which are virtually bomb proof !

 

[Kingrex]

Rex … Not that it matters , however where on earth did you come up with 3 x screws ? I can assure you that I have a most substantial bag of screws left over from my AC shipping crates, which are virtually bomb proof !

The picture of the crate. I though I saw 3 screw per side. You probably had about 22 to 24 screws after taking it apart. Hey, I am all with you on unscrewing the box. It sounds like you have unboxed many and the box is not glued.

I would number the panels and place a strike mark across the top and bottom to ensure you put the box panel sides, top and bottom together the same way. I have wood crates on a few of my equipment and the boxes have been destroyed from taking apart and putting back together. Especially the top screws that easily tear out plywood. They are very ugly now as they have all sorts of reinforcing tape on them. Glass wrap under clear packing to give more strength. Wood crates detonate quite easy.
Oddly, a wood crate can be a liability if not filled with soft foam properly. The box is so rigid, mishandling is easily transmitted to the equipment inside. They dropped one of my amp crates and the impact broke a output transformer. You need soft material that reduce velocity slowly. Wood crates will transmit velocity changes quickly. Unless the interior damping material is designed properly.

When I sold my Dartzeel, I left it in the crappy cardboard box. I built a custom pallet and sent it ground by Old Dominion freight. That is the best way to ship an expensive audio component.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Out of the crate, and onto a table.



My work for the day is done. Maybe tomorrow I will connect some cables.

 

[Elliot G.]

Out of the crate, and onto a table.

View attachment 159964

My work for the day is done. Maybe tomorrow I will connect some cables.

lol i cant believe you don't get it hooked up and playing. Are you sure you like audio? LMAO

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

lol i cant believe you don't get it hooked up and playing. Are you sure you like audio? LMAO

maybe it´s a "dummy"?

 

[Elliot G.]

maybe it´s a "dummy"?

I cant think of anyone that would go through the effort and then not play it

 

[PeterA]

Out of the crate, and onto a table.

View attachment 159964

My work for the day is done. Maybe tomorrow I will connect some cables.

Sounds like you have a lot going on today Ron. More audio visits or just great weather in SoCal?

 

[Kcin]

Ron, let us know your experience with the piece - I had one here on trial for about 3 weeks about 2 yrs ago.

If I'm unpacking late or if has anything to do with a stylus & I'm tired - I wait until the next day for certain. No reason to cause a accident.

Tough crowd.

 

[PeterA]

Ron, let us know your experience with the piece - I had one here on trial for about 3 weeks about 2 yrs ago.

If I'm unpacking late or if has anything to do with a stylus & I'm tired - I wait until the next day for certain. No reason to cause a accident.

Tough crowd.

Just a few friends teasing Ron...or is he giving us a tease? Seems so.

 

[morricab]

Out of the crate, and onto a table.

View attachment 159964

My work for the day is done. Maybe tomorrow I will connect some cables.

Ron, you are just a big tease!

 

[Kingrex]

lol i cant believe you don't get it hooked up and playing. Are you sure you like audio? LMAO

I agree. If anything I would turn it on and pass a digital signal into it non stop to start settling.it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you for the comments and inquiries, everybody!

Here is how my mind works these days regarding audio. I want the listening to music I do, and the playing with components I do, and the configuring the stereo stuff I do, to remain an 1) enjoyable 2) hobby. I have a limited audio "battery."

I've spent a lot of hours the last three weeks preparing for the premiere of The HiFi Five: getting familiar with working with the streaming platform; figuring out how to connect to YouTube; planning the show with the regulars; starting the new YouTube channel for it; figuring out the audio podcast channels; writing and working on the press release; preparing for, scheduling and completing a full dress rehearsal of the first episode; preparing and practicing my opening for the premier; and contacting candidates to be our first guest.

Yesterday alone I spent an hour or two here on WBF, and at least three hours talking audio with five different personal friends. This I enjoy because it feels like an extension of my pure hobbyist side.

Then there are the incoming calls, messages and texts from WBF members and Facebook "friends" wanting to talk audio and get audio advice.

Then there are emails and calls from the WBF advertising sponsors I have introduced to What's Best Forum.

This morning I spent some time working on the questions for this Wednesday's episode with our first guest.

So I dedicate a huge amount of time to a wide variety of audio things before I can even think about walking into my listening room and actually enjoying my stereo and actually enjoying listening to music. If my audio "battery" has been depleted by other activities related to audio before I even walk into my listening room, then I am no longer in the mood just to enjoy my stereo and and sit down and listen to music purely as a hobbyist.

So much of my time is dedicated to audio in one way or another, directly or indirectly, that I really don't want to walk into my room and listen to music unless I'm genuinely in the mood for it, unless all the pilot lights are glowing green. I learned last year that I want to be careful not to adulterate my enjoyment of high-end audio and listening to music purely as my hobby with all of the other activities I do in audio.

All of the non-hobby activities come first, because those are sort of responsibilities*, and there are people who sort of depend on what I'm doing. So if all I want to do as a hobbyist for a particular day is pull the preamp out of the crate and put it on the table, and look at how nice it looks, then, by gosh, that's all I'm gonna do.

*I realize these are "responsibilities" which I have undertaken voluntarily. I realize I could go back to circa 2015 and just be a pure hobbyist playing with my system and listening to music.

 

[microstrip]

Ron: People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.


With no budget constraint whatsoever . . . I recently have heard Burmester 159 (two different systems), Constellation Statement, D'Agostino Relentless, Boulder 3010, D'Agostino preamp. The cheapest combination -- VAC Reference and VAC 300s won my vote for "maximize liquidity of vocals."

Well, but when you post "People" your are not just posting your individual opinion.