Ron’s New System

[PeterA]

l like density and weight too. Its hard to find it with articulate, natural, true to voices and instruments.
I admit, I like the way tubes voice. They are more natural to voice and piano. But SS is usually more dense and weighted.

Hopefully the A C gets you both.

In my opinion, this is where gear choice matters. I’ve heard a few systems that are both extremely articulate with lots of mass and weight and resolution. You’re basically describing natural sound where everything is in balance. Also a few additional ones on videos from a few members.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

In my opinion, this is where gear choice matters. I’ve heard a few systems that are both extremely articulate with lots of mass and weight and resolution. You’re basically describing natural sound where everything is in balance.

l like density and weight too. Its hard to find it with articulate, natural, true to voices and instruments.
I admit, I like the way tubes voice. They are more natural to voice and piano. But SS is usually more dense and weighted.

But as a match for the rest of my system I preferred the greater tonal density and "meatiness" of the Incito S.

the key is attaining the weight and fullness while retaining liveness and energy, sparkle. and not slowing down the propulsion of the music or rounding it off. balance. avoiding sameness. my view of natural. which is the magic trick. some prefer accepting degrees of rounding and slower for more weight and fullness. a personal choice, no right or wrong.

my preference is that for the weight and fullness, while present fully, come purely from the music and not be an artifact over the top. the bass ought to be sneaky, not in your face, a constant thing.

this is not just a particular piece of gear, more a whole system synergy thing. but it can be a piece of gear thing.

best to avoid gear that leans too far one way, as it takes so much compromise to bring the system back to balance.

 

[bonzo75]

I prefer the 7.5 III to the Boulder 3010 in every component configuration in the known universe.

Not really an answer - guess you didn’t try outside the Varese system

 

[bonzo75]

But as a match for the rest of my system I preferred the greater tonal density and "meatiness" of the Incito S.

surprised it was still lean that you needed this to bring the balance, as you many times said you like components with weight and and bottoms up. Thought you would have bought that signature earlier in the chain, so won’t this add too much meat? Or did you not buy bottoms up weight components earlier despite liking that style

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why did you drag Boulder into a discussion of your system? No Boulder component would ever find its way into your rig.

Hi Chuck!

Just a personal, subjective example for my ears to rebut Dasgute's dogmatic assertion that hybrid preamps are the worst of both worlds.

Again, I have enormous respect for Boulder. The company is one of the super high class acts in the industry. The engineering is amazing; the build quality is astounding; the reliability and the manufacturer support are as good as it gets in this industry. The components achieve precisely the sonic attributes they are aiming for.

It just doesn't happen to be my sonic cup of tea. I truly am delighted for you that it is your cup of tea!

 

[microstrip]

(...) My view is the VTL 7.5 is just a poor performing preamp. I bought the original 7.5 and found the gain structure was a joke - anything amp over 26db gain produced audible noise. (...)

Yes, the original VTL7.5 had serious noise problems - they were solved in later versions.

Ron owns the 7.5mk3 - a very different preamplifier - noise free if used with decent 12AU7 - I used it with Mullard's.

 

[microstrip]

(...) In direct comparison D'Agostino preamp on XVX with Varese (...)

The three box Relentless D'Agostino preamplfier? Can we know what was the power?

 

[DasguteOhr]

As I've said written many times, for me, implementation (resulting sound) trumps theory. In direct comparison D'Agostino preamp on XVX with Varese, I easily preferred the 7.5.

I love the sound of the 7.5 III, just not in my current system. I certainly prefer it to the vastly more expensive Boulder 3010.

It's great that it works for you. Several companies have tried combining a voltage stage (tube) +output stage with a MOSFET transistor. It works quite well in hybrid power amps, but in preamps, the sound is always disharmonious. That's just my personal opinion. There are plenty of tube preamps that have no problem driving long cables or multiple power amps. Boulder wouldn't be my first choice for a transistor preamp.
I'd try to listen to a used Klyne 7 lx preamp. For me, it's the epitome of musicality among transistor preamps, regardless of the price.I have many friends who listen with tubes, unanimous opinion klyne rocks the house
Exsample 7 lx

P.S the px phono stage too

 

[AudioHR]

My speakers are 105 dB, 16 ohm. My amplifiers are specified as 18 W. I have a small room and listen at 75 to 85 dB. Peaks are around 90 to 95.

Do you think I ever use maximum power? How loud do you think it would get in my room if I were to use 5 W if one watt produces 105 DB at 1 m? Just curious. I never listen more than high 90s.

Just curious. What spl scale are you using when you measure, A or C?

 

[Porsche]

It's great that it works for you. Several companies have tried combining a voltage stage (tube) +output stage with a MOSFET transistor. It works quite well in hybrid power amps, but in preamps, the sound is always disharmonious. That's just my personal opinion. There are plenty of tube preamps that have no problem driving long cables or multiple power amps. Boulder wouldn't be my first choice for a transistor preamp.
I'd try to listen to a used Klyne 7 lx preamp. For me, it's the epitome of musicality among transistor preamps, regardless of the price.I have many friends who listen with tubes, unanimous opinion klyne rocks the house
Exsample 7 lx
View attachment 159912
P.S the px phono stage too

stan Klyne builds a wonderful preamp and phono, superb for the money

 

[Ron Resnick]

It's great that it works for you.

Thank you. Aries Cerat, ARC, VAC, Hovland, Trafomatic -- only a tube preamp gives me the liquidity and space and "holography" on vocals that I care about on a single issue voter basis.

I'd try to listen to a used Klyne 7 lx preamp. For me, it's the epitome of musicality among transistor preamps

Thank you for the thought. But that's just the point. I don't want musicality that's good among transistor preamps. I want to maximize musicality, which for me means tubes.

regardless of the price.I have many friends who listen with tubes, unanimous opinion klyne rocks the house
Exsample 7 lx
View attachment 159912
P.S the px phono stage too

Yes, people choose solid-state to rock the house. People choose solid-state for maximizing resolution. People choose solid-state for maximizing low frequency dynamics.

People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

 

[morricab]

Thank you. Aries Cerat, ARC, VAC, Hovland, Trafomatic -- only a tube preamp gives me the liquidity and space and "holography" on vocals that I care about on a single issue voter basis.


Thank you for the thought. But that's just the point. I don't want musicality that's good among transistor preamps. I want to maximize musicality, which for me means tubes.



Yes, people choose solid-state to rock the house. People choose solid-state for maximizing resolution. People choose solid-state for maximizing low frequency dynamics.

People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

Can I get a “Hallelujah “!

 

[morricab]

Thank you. Aries Cerat, ARC, VAC, Hovland, Trafomatic -- only a tube preamp gives me the liquidity and space and "holography" on vocals that I care about on a single issue voter basis.


Thank you for the thought. But that's just the point. I don't want musicality that's good among transistor preamps. I want to maximize musicality, which for me means tubes.



Yes, people choose solid-state to rock the house. People choose solid-state for maximizing resolution. People choose solid-state for maximizing low frequency dynamics.

People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

Just don’t forget to use a mid 1950s Phillips metal base GZ34, to maximize transparency and holography …weight will still be there.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Thank you. Aries Cerat, ARC, VAC, Hovland, Trafomatic -- only a tube preamp gives me the liquidity and space and "holography" on vocals that I care about on a single issue voter basis.


Thank you for the thought. But that's just the point. I don't want musicality that's good among transistor preamps. I want to maximize musicality, which for me means tubes.

But you have to try a lot of tubes to find something better...good luck. You realize this painfully when you sell Klyne and look for something better. My Bitter personal experience.
P.S
Maybe a Vacuumstate RTP3D

 

[microstrip]

Thank you. Aries Cerat, ARC, VAC, Hovland, Trafomatic -- only a tube preamp gives me the liquidity and space and "holography" on vocals that I care about on a single issue voter basis.

Coming from some who says that implementation always trumps theory it looks bizarre - theory says that tubes can give us non linearity that solid state or passive can't. Most of the existing theory was outlined by professionals analyzing the sound characteristics of SS and tube microphones - the last ones are known for the properties you refer.

Using proper theory some designers can approach these characteristics - specif point of operation of FETs or JFET-emulated saturation to mimic tube compression curves, but they can't perfectly replicate tubes.

Thank you for the thought. But that's just the point. I don't want musicality that's good among transistor preamps. I want to maximize musicality, which for me means tubes.

Musicality is an extremely subjective and an excellent example of one's man meat is another man's poison, ok.

Yes, people choose solid-state to rock the house.

Wrong.

People choose solid-state for maximizing resolution.

Again wrong.

People choose solid-state for maximizing low frequency dynamics.

Not dynamics, space, resolution and extension.

People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

Well, it depends on budget ...

 

[morricab]

Coming from some who says that implementation always trumps theory it looks bizarre - theory says that tubes can give us non linearity that solid state or passive can't. Most of the existing theory was outlined by professionals analyzing the sound characteristics of SS and tube microphones - the last ones are known for the properties you refer.

Using proper theory some designers can approach these characteristics - specif point of operation of FETs or JFET-emulated saturation to mimic tube compression curves, but they can't perfectly replicate tubes.


Musicality is an extremely subjective and an excellent example of one's man meat is another man's poison, ok.



Wrong.



Again wrong.



Not dynamics, space, resolution and extension.



Well, it depends on budget ...

Theory says that the triode is the most linear of all amplification devices, such that distortion is suitably low even without feedback. All transistors have higher non-linearity and require feedback to have usably low distortion, but the application of feedback has detrimental sonic side effects.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron: People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.

Well, it depends on budget ...

With no budget constraint whatsoever . . . I recently have heard Burmester 159 (two different systems), Constellation Statement, D'Agostino Relentless, Boulder 3010, D'Agostino preamp. The cheapest combination -- VAC Reference and VAC 300s won my vote for "maximize liquidity of vocals."

 

[tima]

my preference is that for the weight and fullness, while present fully, come purely from the music and not be an artifact over the top. the bass ought to be sneaky, not in your face, a constant thing.

I think I agree. The bass should be how the score describes it in terms of musical notation (duration/timing, tonality, dynamics, emphasis) and and how the conductor interprets the score. Each performnce is different, there is no one way although there is a general common understanding on the meaning of musical markings. Whether a piece of gear is capable of nuanced performance is something else. Imo a better understanding of gear comes from a better understanding of what the music asks of it.

 

[PeterA]

Just curious. What spl scale are you using when you measure, A or C?

A

 

[Kingrex]

Ron: People don't choose solid-state to maximize liquidity of vocals.


With no budget constraint whatsoever . . . I recently have heard Burmester 159 (two different systems), Constellation Statement, D'Agostino Relentless, Boulder 3010, D'Agostino preamp. The cheapest combination -- VAC Reference and VAC 300s won my vote for "maximize liquidity of vocals."

What was the weight and fullness like with the VAC?