Grandinote Mach 8 XL vs Mach 9 speakers

[sbo6]

I’ve noticed that Grandinote Mach speakers are surprisingly forgiving when it comes to room acoustics. Their minimalist, crossover-less design really makes a difference: no phase shifts or time distortion, so the sound stays super coherent, fast, and musical. The semi-resonance tube (S.R.T.) cabinet for bass loading also delivers tight, deep, and agile bass, and it’s less impacted by room issues compared to traditional designs.

Unlike Magico and Wilson, which use more complex crossovers and have more isolated drivers, Mach speakers are less sensitive to room nodes and reflections. The intricate crossover networks in Magico and Wilson speakers make them more vulnerable to room imperfections, so they need more meticulous room treatment to really shine. But the Grandinote Mach prioritizes musicality and natural timbre, so they still sound amazing even in untreated rooms.

It's not so much the speaker that's "sensitive" to room modes, it's the room that's sensitive contingent on the speaker placement and listening spot.

Also, while minimal phase shift in general is beneficial, off axis response is equally if not more important IME.

 

[sbo6]

Your posts are obnoxious, I have no idea what your issue is. You post your measurements if you want, I don’t think it brings much.

No issues, just the truth. Some of us don't kiss butt and say it like it is..

And if measurements don't bring much, that tells me you don't understand them, so you ignore it. Imagine if your speaker designer did the same.

 

[morricab]

No issues, just the truth. Some of us don't kiss butt and say it like it is..

And if measurements don't bring much, that tells me you don't understand them, so you ignore it. Imagine if your speaker designer did the same.

It tells you nothing of the sort, presumption doesn’t make you look smart. I have said many times I measure, especially when designing my own speakers…something I doubt you could dream of doing.

 

[morricab]

You measure to build speakers but not to dial them in your room? LOL, OK, that, along with all that glass and panels in your room speaks volumes.

And BTW, "I doubt you couldn’t dream of doing" is a double negative and means I could dream of it. So thanks for that.


Enjoy!

You have me confused with the original poster…go back and look at the thread before you say more silliness.

 

[abeidrov]

Interesting if previous cables acted as filters to cause drive issues.

I’ve tried my Transparent SCs with the current setup, not as loud, a bit softer, but not night and day difference.

 

[morricab]

I’ve tried my Transparent SCs with the current setup, not as loud, a bit softer, but not night and day difference.

Do you still have the Genus to try with the changes you made since then? I think you were using other speaker cables at least if not other changes.

 

[Kozak170]

It's not so much the speaker that's "sensitive" to room modes, it's the room that's sensitive contingent on the speaker placement and listening spot.

Also, while minimal phase shift in general is beneficial, off axis response is equally if not more important IME.

I agree that speaker placement and listening spot are key to room acoustics. However, the Grandinote Mach speakers, with their crossover-less design and minimal phase shifts, reduce room interference. Their wider dispersion pattern, combined with the phase coherence from the crossover-less design, ensures a more consistent sound even outside the sweet spot, making them less sensitive to room acoustics in untreated spaces. While placement and treatment are important, the Mach's design makes them more adaptable to imperfect acoustics than many other high-end speakers.

 

[Kozak170]

Also, Jadis has very basic Soviet tubes):

This particular model of the 845SE Jadis is actually quite rare and was manufactured in 1992! Exactly one year later, the first generation of the AG Trio was born. It would be interesting if someone compares it with the new generation 845, like the AC Genus, of course, in a system and speakers that are well-matched with both.

 

[gleeds]

A fellow audiophile&music lover has a top of the line Mach 36 (in red, probably the only Mach 36 in the world) , not far from me in NY. He has top Naim Statement amp&preamp combo and top Kuzma TT. I have heard his system extensively. I like his speakers alot, it provides a wall of sound type, very hyper real, fast, with lots of bass. He likes it that way, as he listens about 6-8 feet away, However his room is waaaaay too smal for these huge speakers, and I think the speakers just reflect the Naim amplification sound. At the Axpona 2024, I did not care for the sound of whatever model the Grandinote showed with their own amplification, as I found it harsh, and "hi-fi ish", with solid state ish overtones. However the Grandinote were showing in a much smaller room than the DUO GT was showing, so it could have been a poor set up. May be with Gryphons these will sound "better". Those Grandinote (whatever the model) did not sound to me like anything extraordinarily good to be honest with you. The AG DUO GT at that Axpona 2024 was one of the best systems, even when I was not sitting in the sweet spot. I guess it all depends on your taste and your system gear. The AG DUO horns have a very different sound signature compared to the most box speakers, like your Wilsons. You kinda need to sit little farther with the DUO, than with your Wilson, at least 3-4 meters (9-12 feet) in my experience to get a coherent picture, but if you have the space, I think AG DUO versions are definitely worth exploring.

Such is the challenge of evaluating speakers at Audio shows. That said, if the manufacturer does not know how to make good sound in show conditions, I believe it reflects either a limitation in them or the speaker itself is not especially forgiving of a challenging room. Of course, a manufacturer should never show up with amplification, sources, and cabling that do not synergize well.

On the other hand, I have heard of systems costing one to three million dollars hauled to Munich using all gold-plated brands regularly sold together at retailers that sound plain awful. From the manufacturer's side, it's a tough business fellas, when it comes to making a good sound, but we are not faultless if we fail!

 

[sbo6]

You have me confused with the original poster…go back and look at the thread before you say more silliness.

My post stands - measurements matter. Again, imagine if your speaker designer didn't measure during designing.

 

[Duke LeJeune]

imagine if your speaker designer didn't measure during designing.

Speaker designers do make measurements during the design phase, but they do not make in-room measurements at the listening position. And the reason is:

off axis response is... important

You see, an in-room frequency response measurement cannot separate the direct sound from the reflections. So speaker designers measure the on-axis and off-axis responses using techniques which deliberately exclude the room's effects.

 

[abeidrov]

Do you still have the Genus to try with the changes you made since then? I think you were using other speaker cables at least if not other changes.

No, but I did try other speaker cables with Genus.

 

[abeidrov]

That’s quite good.

Below is Leif’s from 3 years ago (whatever iteration he was in then)

So, do you prefer Grandinote amp over Jadis?

 

[Kozak170]

Such is the challenge of evaluating speakers at Audio shows. That said, if the manufacturer does not know how to make good sound in show conditions, I believe it reflects either a limitation in them or the speaker itself is not especially forgiving of a challenging room. Of course, a manufacturer should never show up with amplification, sources, and cabling that do not synergize well.

Regarding the Grandinote Mach 8, if people mentioned hearing a harsh sound at Axpona 2024, it most likely came from the room limitations, not the speaker itself. This model produces a very wide and open soundstage with strong dynamics, and it simply needs space to breathe.

When you place a speaker like this in a hotel room only about 2.5 meters wide, like at Axpona 2024, the sidewall reflections arrive too early, reinforcing the upper midrange (around 3–6 kHz) and creating that forward or harsh impression.

In reality, the Mach 8 performs much better in rooms at least 3.5 meters wide and around 5–6 meters deep, where it can develop proper imaging and separation from the walls. Under those conditions, the harshness completely disappears, revealing the smooth, transparent, and powerful sound Grandinote is famous for.

So, the problem wasn’t the speaker — it was simply the room setup, which is quite common at audio shows.

 

[morricab]

No, but I did try other speaker cables with Genus.

Just one more question, did you try the Genus with your CH P1 preamp? The reason I ask is that Aries Cerat amps are really designed to go with Aries Cerat sources, which have high output and low output impedance. The Genus has a medium gain and a relatively low input impedance, which means your DAC might not drive it optimally. The P1 would likely improve the dynamics significantly, which would suffer when the DAC and amp are mismatched in impedance.

 

[morricab]

Regarding the Grandinote Mach 8, if people mentioned hearing a harsh sound at Axpona 2024, it most likely came from the room limitations, not the speaker itself. This model produces a very wide and open soundstage with strong dynamics, and it simply needs space to breathe.

When you place a speaker like this in a hotel room only about 2.5 meters wide, like at Axpona 2024, the sidewall reflections arrive too early, reinforcing the upper midrange (around 3–6 kHz) and creating that forward or harsh impression.

In reality, the Mach 8 performs much better in rooms at least 3.5 meters wide and around 5–6 meters deep, where it can develop proper imaging and separation from the walls. Under those conditions, the harshness completely disappears, revealing the smooth, transparent, and powerful sound Grandinote is famous for.

So, the problem wasn’t the speaker — it was simply the room setup, which is quite common at audio shows.
View attachment 159694

I would have sharply toed them in to the point where it crosses in front of the listener. This minimizes the first wall reflection and also widens the sweet spot...

 

[bonzo75]

So, do you prefer Grandinote amp over Jadis?

Ok I just heard one yesterday and my reaction was as a compare to your older videos and generally overall. I now heard both, had missed that there were two. I think they sound equal, possibly a bit of density on Jadis in the higher range, and some more dynamic range and deeper bass texture on Grandi. I can't select based on this video itself.

Maybe if you do a smaller scale chamber music compare with the two, and piano, we will be able to tell more.

As long as you are not getting spiky hardness in room from Grandi (it is there on phone playback but not on my soundbox playback).

 

[morricab]

What is your impression now of the speakers as a whole? Are they now living up to expectations?

 

[abeidrov]

Regarding the Grandinote Mach 8, if people mentioned hearing a harsh sound at Axpona 2024, it most likely came from the room limitations, not the speaker itself. This model produces a very wide and open soundstage with strong dynamics, and it simply needs space to breathe.

When you place a speaker like this in a hotel room only about 2.5 meters wide, like at Axpona 2024, the sidewall reflections arrive too early, reinforcing the upper midrange (around 3–6 kHz) and creating that forward or harsh impression.

In reality, the Mach 8 performs much better in rooms at least 3.5 meters wide and around 5–6 meters deep, where it can develop proper imaging and separation from the walls. Under those conditions, the harshness completely disappears, revealing the smooth, transparent, and powerful sound Grandinote is famous for.

So, the problem wasn’t the speaker — it was simply the room setup, which is quite common at audio shows.
View attachment 159694

Do you own Grandinote speakers or sell them?

 

[abeidrov]

Just one more question, did you try the Genus with your CH P1 preamp? The reason I ask is that Aries Cerat amps are really designed to go with Aries Cerat sources, which have high output and low output impedance. The Genus has a medium gain and a relatively low input impedance, which means your DAC might not drive it optimally. The P1 would likely improve the dynamics significantly, which would suffer when the DAC and amp are mismatched in impedance.

Yes, I did with both vinyl and digital.