Tobian Soundsystems - Switzerland
- Thread starter Golum
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Thanks Marcus! That's given, but still it would be interesting to know which cables people have decided to connect to Tobians. Are you using for example Esprit and Audience with both Aries Cerat Protos and Phamation integrated or does one of the cables work with both amps?
I used Kondo Audio Note cables with the Tobians. Copper speaker cables and silver IC. Worked for me.
JP
JP
Well I'm using entire Signal Projects loom. I've deliberately chosen SilverQuest line as it's silver based to a bit counter weight entire DHT based system (except Lampi Horizon 360).
New addition to the rig were Tobian MA50 SET 300b monos which replaced Nagra VPAs as of recently. I did not have any specific reason for this move as I was extremely happy with the VPAs (outside of the summer months as their heat dissipation was unbearable) but on the another hand I had a wish to try and listen to his speakers with the power amps from his stable - as they were developed with them. What can I say after few months of using them - I just love the synergy and as my great buddy @Superfi would say - these don't sound as majority of 300b SET amps...they are super fast, detailed with amazing mids but not bloated and over pronounced. Stage, bass, HF extension - fantastic, but overall what is the most important part for me is musicality and tonality and here it excels. So I would say this last part makes it different vs VPA but truth to be told these are not day/night differences. Big bonus - no crazy heat
. Tube complement WE 300b, NOS 5u4g and NOS 42s driving 300b.
Additionally my wife prefers the classic look of these vs VPA so everyone is happy and there is a peace in the family. Case closed - until SuperFi sends me my new 'summer' solid state amp specifically developed for horn/high sensitivity speakers. Show must go on...
New addition to the rig were Tobian MA50 SET 300b monos which replaced Nagra VPAs as of recently. I did not have any specific reason for this move as I was extremely happy with the VPAs (outside of the summer months as their heat dissipation was unbearable) but on the another hand I had a wish to try and listen to his speakers with the power amps from his stable - as they were developed with them. What can I say after few months of using them - I just love the synergy and as my great buddy @Superfi would say - these don't sound as majority of 300b SET amps...they are super fast, detailed with amazing mids but not bloated and over pronounced. Stage, bass, HF extension - fantastic, but overall what is the most important part for me is musicality and tonality and here it excels. So I would say this last part makes it different vs VPA but truth to be told these are not day/night differences. Big bonus - no crazy heat
. Tube complement WE 300b, NOS 5u4g and NOS 42s driving 300b.Additionally my wife prefers the classic look of these vs VPA so everyone is happy and there is a peace in the family. Case closed
- until SuperFi sends me my new 'summer' solid state amp specifically developed for horn/high sensitivity speakers. Show must go on...
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Perfect sense Audio
Dealer - Perfect Sense Audio
These cables have some qualities in common in terms of characteristics while also using copper conductors and silver plated connectors.
Both brands works very well with any of these amps in general. There are differences though of course, where the result also depends on the performance level from each brand. Esprit Eureka and Audience FrontRow are two of our goto cable series on the higher level which might be worth aiming for within this setting without going overboard.
There are too many variables involved to make any definitive statements in terms of performance and characteristics though. You really have to try before you decide, which is relatively easy compared to speakers etc. in terms of getting cables for home loan and personal evaluation.
/ Marcus
I have been using Audience FrontRow speaker cables between my 300b SET and Tobian 15FH with good results. Overall warm of neutral but the detail is still good. Most importantly for me, the staging and depth are good. I use copper ribbon interconnects and an EMIA silver AVC as counterweights to the warmth, although the EMIA sounds fairly neutral compared to the warm copper version I had previously.
I just use Western Electric 16AWG KS.13385L-1 26 Strand speaker cables with low mass BFA Z plugs.
I can't recall where I wrote about my new inbound SS amp for my Tobians so I'll just plug it here. Anyways story started year and something ago while I was using happily my Nagra VPA blocks but even during short summer stints here in CH it was completely unbearable to use them due to heat dissipation from the quad of 845 tubes. I got complains from both kids and my wife so system was 'down' for the majority of that period. That was a tipping point to approach a best friend of mine who happens to be a great amp builder and with some back and forth with Gunter what in a nutshell spec SS amp should have to properly drive the my FH12 Sigs and based on that input @Superfi started to cook the amp. It took few months to and few iterations and I've heard first prototype on the board at his place last summer. And indeed it already that version with very rudimentary parts sounded great so decision has been made to proceed with parts ordering and chassis design. What we agreed is to go with the best of the best parts we can get like NOS Senkens, Mundorfs, Duelund, etc. I hope he might chime in with some technicalities but the amp is pure A class with no AB sliding hence around 18 to 20W with damping factor of around 15 hence the perfect match for high sensitivity speakers as it was the project 'brief'.
Chassis itself turned out to be absolutely magnificent for my eyes entirely CNC milled from the blocks of Al and even the heat sinks have been custom made. Anodization was done at the same facility where Karan Acoustics is doing their stuff so its just gorgeous. Entire unit is like 40kg in weight so quite a significant chunk of electronics.
Now sound wise - what we/I heard on the board and I was already happy with this final unit is just eating for breakfast. Upon turn on it is just dead by any means like a properly designed and produced amp should be - no hum, no buzz, no BS. I plug my entire head into the horn of 98dB and I hear absolutely nothing - just beautiful.
But once you press play button magic starts to happen and things get amazing - purity, dynamics, punch of bass even at low volume, beauty of mids and HF extension. I mean just everything works in a such a cohesion that you totally forget everything. Without any exaggeration and i even told this to @Superfi that this might be one of the best amps I ever heard and owned. Its just freakin amazing and even more amazing that I'm really an all in tube guy. Ah I forgot - tone color is just how it should be - like I'm listening to the best tube amps.
What else can i say except that I'm over the moon happy with the decision to engage and move fw with this project.
Not to forget - all listening has been done with Horizon360 direct so once my Tobian SC12R preamp is back i believe all this might get one major step better.
Few pics and I'll attach few YT videos just for the basic basic flavor....
Chassis itself turned out to be absolutely magnificent for my eyes entirely CNC milled from the blocks of Al and even the heat sinks have been custom made. Anodization was done at the same facility where Karan Acoustics is doing their stuff so its just gorgeous. Entire unit is like 40kg in weight so quite a significant chunk of electronics.
Now sound wise - what we/I heard on the board and I was already happy with this final unit is just eating for breakfast. Upon turn on it is just dead by any means like a properly designed and produced amp should be - no hum, no buzz, no BS. I plug my entire head into the horn of 98dB and I hear absolutely nothing - just beautiful.
But once you press play button magic starts to happen and things get amazing - purity, dynamics, punch of bass even at low volume, beauty of mids and HF extension. I mean just everything works in a such a cohesion that you totally forget everything. Without any exaggeration and i even told this to @Superfi that this might be one of the best amps I ever heard and owned. Its just freakin amazing and even more amazing that I'm really an all in tube guy. Ah I forgot - tone color is just how it should be - like I'm listening to the best tube amps.
What else can i say except that I'm over the moon happy with the decision to engage and move fw with this project.
Not to forget - all listening has been done with Horizon360 direct so once my Tobian SC12R preamp is back i believe all this might get one major step better.
Few pics and I'll attach few YT videos just for the basic basic flavor....
Based on the youtube sound, however inadequate it may be, your new SS SuperFi amp sounded really good. And, I really like the front fascia plate with rounded, radius upper/lower edges. Fantastic! Congrats, Golum.
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And, fwiw, heat and tube life are two of the reasons that made me decide to explore other options -- my new Thöress hybrid -- and, of course, it sounds great.
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It does get warm/hot but nothing close to Nagras. I measured heat sinks temp on Sunday after 11/12h of play time and they were on both sides 50.2c which is great.
I wanted to share my thoughts on Tobian. My audio journey has been going on for 32 years and I have never paid attention to this type of speaker, but recently I listened to them several times at my friend's place from Air Tight, and they sounded simply beautiful, with lots of air, stage, and the magic of the vocals was captivating. I recently moved to a smaller apartment and am considering purchasing this type of speaker, and Tobian is on my list. My question may be naive, but is it worth considering this type of speaker for a room measuring 4.2m x 4.2m, or is the space too small? I should add that I will have 3 m of space behind the listening position because I want to connect two rooms, but the distance from the speaker to me will form a 3 m x 3 m x 3 m triangle. If anyone has suggestions for a specific model, I would be happy to hear them. I mainly listen to jazz, blues, and vocals.
I would say that my room is of a similar size - maybe a tad bigger and I'm using with a great results 12FH Sig. You could also consider 10FH or 10FH Sig as the sound signature is the same except, they are more suitable for a smaller space.
Thanks for your feedback. I've heard your system on YouTube and I'm even a subscriber. In the meantime, I've already visited a friend to listen to the Tobian 12. They sound beautiful, so the decision has been made. I'll consider the 10-12 model. For the amplifier, I have a choice between Air Tight or Riviera Class A, and of course lampizator from my neighbor, because it's a shame to live next door to the headquarters and never have one at home.
I have about the same distance between speakers (12FH) and listening position as you would. My room is a bit bigger 5m x 6m, but asymmetric (3,5m high). I run Tobians with Phasemation SA-1500 integrated. I think that 12FH would work nicely in your room as well.
Thanks, after the merger, my room will be 4.2m x 7m, with a 4.2m x 4.2m connected section on the right with an open kitchen along its entire length, and a floor-to-ceiling glass wall on the left. My wife and I have decided that we will buy 12 signatures after all.
This is Artnovian's acoustic project, but still with a wall behind the seating area. I'm waiting for the new project.
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That's a good sized space, @Król_Artur. Although my room has the dimensions of 5.2m x 6.4m, my speakers (12FH) are only 2.6-2.7m apart, measured center-to-center. My seating position is ~3.15m from each of the speakers, FWIW.
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