Lukasz Has Done It Again

[Sampajanna]

I am not upset, Steve, Not at all. Sorry if that is conveyed… I also have great respect for Lukasz, who has brought so much joy to my life and agree he is one of the best dac designers ever. I don’t consider changing tubes as modifying Lukasz’s designs or adding ketchup to a chef’s meal. I had, up to this point, considered tube rolling a part of the vision, a part of the design—a feature, as if the chef offered the option of different sauces on the side.

 

[Steve Williams]

and from the manual......

Here are some GENERAL practical tips for tube rolling (not limited to the case of the

Aphrodite:

1. Tube compatibility- many people ask “is the tube X compatible with Y?” and the

answer is of course - it depends. Tubes can have completely different bases but be

compatible by parameters and can be swapped by means of an adaptor. A good

example are ECC40, and 6SN7GT - different bases but very close parameters. Or

ECC88 and 6DJ8. Or 6H8C and 6N1P.

2. Other scenario is when the tubes have same base (say - noval) but they have

different pinouts. So we CAN NOT inter-change the two tube types but we CAN use

an adaptor. Same base type and same pinout DOES NOT MEAN that the tubes are

interchangeable - best example is cc81 and cc82 - same base, same exact pinout

but completely different parameters. Or octal 6SN7 and VT99 - both octal, same

parameters, different pinout.

3. Some tubes can have same base, same pinout and same parameters except the

different heaters. Best example is ECC82 and 12BH7 - the former uses half heating

of the latter. They can be used with a switch or within limited timing or with extra

care, depending on the heater arrangement in our DAC. Another example are

completely different tubes that miraculously are perfectly interchangeable - like

E182CC with 5687.

4. Pentodes used in ourAphrodite DAC are yet another can of worms. Most

Pentode tubes have the same base (Octal) and the same pinout (Heaters on 2

and 7, anode at 3, cathode at 8) The problem is that these tubes have

completely different heater demands. Our DAC is designed to accept ALL

KNOWN pentodes from this group. People keep discovering more and more

compatible types every month.

We supply the tubes that are purchased new from reliable sources. They are tested

and matched.

WE DO NOT DEAL WITH NOS TUBES, leaving this fun entirely to YOU.

 

[Steve Williams]

I am not upset, Steve, Not at all. Sorry if that is conveyed… I also have great respect for Lukasz, who has brought so much joy to my life and agree he is one of the best dac designers ever. I don’t consider changing tubes as modifying Lukasz’s designs or adding ketchup to a chef’s meal. I had, up to this point, considered tube rolling a part of the vision, a part of the design—a feature, as if the chef offered the option of different sauces on the side.

You sound upset. ....take a deep breath as you're making a mountain out of mole hill

Whatever tubes worked fine in the H360 will also work fine in the Aphrodite to the best of my knowledge

 

[Steve Williams]

I completely agree about the joy he hs brought to the lives of we users. What I take away. from his statement is that he has tested all combinations and is saying that in his opinion this is the very best ...but he defies you to find better....and then he said

WE DO NOT DEAL WITH NOS TUBES, leaving this fun entirely to YOU.


to my mind, the rest is up to the user

 

[plasmod3]

The issue becomes the protective mechanism - there is a risk that it will shut down the dac unnecessarily...how much of a headroom are the transformers specced beyond the el34 or 6550 heater requirements here is the question and when does the protective mechanism kick in ? At 75% of transformer capacity? 85%? it might not be if we want to roll tubes but rather if there is any capacity left to roll. AI has taken over the dac in a way; it is no longer a simple mechanism and computer can say 'no'

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

The issue becomes the protective mechanism - there is a risk that it will shut down the dac unnecessarily...how much of a headroom are the transformers specced beyond the el34 or 6550 heater requirements here is the question and when does the protective mechanism kick in ? At 75% of transformer capacity? 85%? it might not be if we want to roll tubes but rather if there is any capacity left to roll. AI has taken over the dac in a way; it is no longer a simple mechanism and computer can say 'no'

I am sorry but you got it all wrong and nothing that you describe is taking place.
The tubes need 1,6 A of heaters, we supply 7 A per tube , is it enough for you?

 

[plasmod3]

I am sorry but you got it all wrong and nothing that you describe is taking place.
The tubes need 1,6 A of heaters, we supply 7 A per tube , is it enough for you?

That is well overspecced Lukasz - amazing! .I dont think there will be any impediment to rolling here but to reassure everyone - when does the protection circuits actually kick in and will they limit the rolling of tubes? It's also the first time a lampizator dac monitors temperatures in the dac - previous dacs always mentions not to worry about heat internally in the dac.

don't feel compelled to reply if these questions tickle the wrong way like it has before - happy if you just ignored.

 

[Sampajanna]

I am not upset at all, Steve. Very happy these days, in fact. Just got back from a month in Europe. Two concerts and an opera!
I am, however, confused. We are getting mixed messages here: roll away, it is a “paradise” and “don’t change the tubes,” with some even suggesting it is offensive to do so….

 

[Steve Williams]

Im not seeing mixed messages at all.

Im not sure what it is you dont understand

 

[Steve Williams]

“don’t change the tubes,” with some even suggesting it is offensive to do so….

Can you point me to where you are reading this

 

[howiebrou]

Somehow I think the Aphrodite should have been named The Ripley...

 

[Steve Williams]

Here's how I read it . Lukasz has designed his next DAC which he feels is his vey best work. He has stated that "In his opinion" he has found what he considers to be the very best tubes for this DAC and has thrown down the gauntlet defying users to prove hime wrong. In the next sentence he said...WE DO NOT DEAL WITH NOS TUBES, leaving this fun entirely to YOU.

Finally like Narayan stated yesterday and wisely so. "you have to start somewhere" and why not start with the recommended tubes to get a starting point . His analogy was wise.....like eating at a Michelin restaurant with a fine meal and asking for the ketchup before even trying the chef's cooking

I truly have no idea why you feel the way you do but seriously if youre going to say that you read what you said, show us the links as I don't hear Lukasz saying anything about which you claim....

 

[Sampajanna]

Im not seeing mixed messages at all.

Im not sure what it is you dont understand

You yourself said that you look forward to hearing it the way “it was meant to be heard.” Naryan suggested I was being discourteous by asking these questions and you suggested I was upset. The only aspect of that I recognize is my use of the word “propaganda,” which is admittedly charged and I apologize to all for doing so as it made it seem like I was showing up with more antagonism than I am… That said, there has been throughout this thread the suggestion that the dac was designed for certain tubes and that this is the way we are “meant to use it” and rolling is questioning the designer’s intention. Then the opposite perspective has been expressed as well, directly from the manual in fact, with the classic Lampi philosophy of creating the “tube roller’s paradise.”

 

[Steve Williams]

Somehow I think the Aphrodite should have been named The Ripley...View attachment 159188
View attachment 159189

The good thing for me is I run SE so I only use 4 tubes not 8

 

[Steve Williams]

You yourself said that you look forward to hearing it the way “it was meant to be heard.” Naryan suggested I was being discourteous by asking these questions and you suggested I was upset. The only aspect of that I recognize is my use of the word “propaganda,” which is admittedly charged and I apologize to all for doing so as it made it seem like I was showing up with more antagonism than I am… That said, there has been throughout this thread the suggestion that the dac was designed for certain tubes and that this is the way we are “meant to use it” and rolling is questioning the designer’s intention. Then the opposite perspective has been expressed as well, directly from the manual in fact, with the classic Lampi philosophy of creating the “tube roller’s paradise.”

I have to time out on this one.....as the saying goes "some like vanilla, some like chocolate and some pick strawberry"

Narayan's analogy was wise although I disagree with his use of the word discourteous. I too have owned 4 Lampizator DAC;'s and I have ALWAYS" used the stock tubes first to give me an idea of where we are starting. from and then pick my flavor. It's really that easy

 

[Sampajanna]

Narayan's analogy was wise although I disagree with his use of the word discourteous. I too have owned 4 Lampizator DAC;'s and I have ALWAYS" used the stock tubes first to give me an idea of where we are starting. from and then pick my flavor. It's really that easy

That is exactly my method as well. Perfectly said.

 

[plasmod3]

I only use the stock tubes as sacrificial lambs to burn in the dac done that a few times now))

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

That is well overspecced Lukasz - amazing! .I dont think there will be any impediment to rolling here but to reassure everyone - when does the protection circuits actually kick in and will they limit the rolling of tubes? It's also the first time a lampizator dac monitors temperatures in the dac - previous dacs always mentions not to worry about heat internally in the dac.

don't feel compelled to reply if these questions tickle the wrong way like it has before - happy if you just ignored.

The two protection levels - the WARNING and the SHUTDOWN are set by the user, who first installs whatever tubes, then checks the actual currents draw - say for example 200 mA, so he himself for his own protection - sets the warnings at 220 mA and shutdown at 250 so if anything ever for whatever reason goes south - you are protected from smoking the transformers and PSU. And the current sensors are NOT in the circuit at all - they are inductive sensors. Nothing to spoil the beauty of sound. So you see - it is NICE of me, not awful of me to do so.

 

[Narayan]

I am considering the new dac. However, I don’t like new Chinese tubes. I’d almost rather go SS than use those (almost). I don’t like this “use stock tubes” propaganda. Having heard the difference NOS tubes make in every product I have owned with tubes, and given that the difference is not small at all, I find this direction...hmm…. Of course, if you cannot be bothered to change the tubes, that is fine and your prerogative. But Lampi has various threads on this and other forums called “tube roller’s paradise.” It is the Lampi way, or has been til now…. Those threads are amongst the most active ones for a reason.

Since I´m being alluded to I want to clarify what (in bold) I found a bit discorteous, key words being "a bit" not very, not extremely, not offensive but a only bit, sorry for causing trouble in Tube Rolling Paradise, now I´m off to the MSB Sentinel Dac thread to see if I can find someone who wants to change its power supply, modify its clock or add an external one and point my perplexed finger at them

On a different note, I´m not a fan of stratospherically priced DACs or amps, but for some reason I´m excited about the Aphrodite, something that has not happened to me before with any audio product. It probably has to do with the fact that Lukasz´s talents weren´t constrained by anything during the design process so I´m expecting something extremely special as a result, I honestly can´t wait to read the first reports.

 

[Steve Williams]

Since I´m being alluded to I want to clarify what (in bold) I found a bit discorteous, key words being "a bit" not very, not extremely, not offensive but a only bit, sorry for causing trouble in Tube Rolling Paradise, now I´m off to the MSB Sentinel Dac thread to see if I can find someone who wants to change its power supply, modify its clock or add an external one and point my perplexed finger at them

On a different note, I´m not a fan of stratospherically priced DACs or amps, but for some reason I´m excited about the Aphrodite, something that has not happened to me before with any audio product. It probably has to do with the fact that Lukasz´s talents weren´t constrained by anything during the design process so I´m expecting something extremely special as a result, I honestly can´t wait to read the first reports.

I'm Doing A '360'.....It'sThe beginning of A New Love”

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