Lukasz Has Done It Again

[Lobster]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus Some Horizon owners reported their pre-amp clipping at bypass / volume 63. Turning Horizon down to 53-55 would solve this issue.
With the absence of a volume control, how did you make sure this won't happen with Aphrodite?

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

@Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus Some Horizon owners reported their pre-amp clipping at bypass / volume 63. Turning Horizon down to 53-55 would solve this issue.
With the absence of a volume control, how did you make sure this won't happen with Aphrodite?

The VERY CORE of the design decision and concept was to make a DAC that wouldnt have that problem. A DAC designed to work with all and any preamp.

 

[kotjac]

I had the pleasure of visiting Lukasz at the new Lampizator headquarters earlier this week. Being a very happy owner of the Horizon 360 I was very excited to hear it in direct comparison to the Aphrodite. I tried to resist, but it was futile: the goddess now has me under her spell.

What became noticeable right away in direct comparison to the H360 was how the soundstage became even more wrap around but at the same time the focus increased a notch or two. Individual notes become more defined and simultaneously more vivid, clear and harmonically dense. A definite improvement over the H360 although the overall sound signature remained very similar.

It's important to mention that both the H360 and the Aphrodite were auditioned with the stock tubes. In my experience with the H360, its sound is very good with the stock tubes, but it can be significantly improved (or changed to best match the rest of the system) with tube rolling. Lukasz says that Aphrodite has been optimized to sound best with stock tubes. If that's the case, it would mean that the gap between the Aphrodite and the Horizon would become significantly smaller if better tubes were used in the Horizon, however I am pretty sure that it would still be too large to be bridged completely. I will be looking forward to Steve's report on how the Aphrodite compares to his fully optimized Horizon.

Jack

 

[Steve Williams]

Lukasz made me promise no tube rolling until he gets here but I must admit that I’m fascinated with the thought that tube rolling is not necessary. If we do I only want to roll the tubes which I roll now in the H360. Plus no triodes

@jack

I wish you would fly in for the event. It promises to be a lot of fun. Many of the attendees have already placed orders so lots of opinions I’m betting on tube rolling

 

[Steve Williams]

Jack

I’m sure one of your partners will cover your weekend

 

[John T]

Whilst I understand the allure of tube rolling. And I have gathered a great deal of knowledge from many of you, along with spending a lot of money putting together a formidable collection. I rarely roll now. The occasional rectifier swap. I have the sound I like, why muck it up.

I like the concept that Lukasz @Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus has developed with the new DAC. "PUT THE TUBES IN" and enjoy the music. Don't be in search of your next "Tube Fix"

The guys who have ordered will be the pioneers. If I can make one suggestion to those who have. Be patient with the 8 KT88's and the 2 5U4G. Get a solid listening foundation under your feet...

 

[Sampajanna]

I am considering the new dac. However, I don’t like new Chinese tubes. I’d almost rather go SS than use those (almost). I don’t like this “use stock tubes” propaganda. Having heard the difference NOS tubes make in every product I have owned with tubes, and given that the difference is not small at all, I find this direction...hmm…. Of course, if you cannot be bothered to change the tubes, that is fine and your prerogative. But Lampi has various threads on this and other forums called “tube roller’s paradise.” It is the Lampi way, or has been til now…. Those threads are amongst the most active ones for a reason.

 

[Steve Williams]

I would bet you that most Aphrodite users will roll tubes in their new DAC. The stock tubes according to LucasZ are probably sufficient enough, but each man’s desire to seek out new tubes lies also within this DAC and there’s no reason to prevent you from doing such. IM betting the event at my house will find such a path for everyone present I think your concern is truly unfounded . Lukasz has never said not to He merely said that to his ears what he will provide as stock will be a catalyst but he has never said not to. Bear in mind that tube rolling has roasted many power supplies and transformers and he is saying caveat emptor. These tube rolling journeys has cost a lot of money in needless repairs. He has also said that the tubes we have found desirable in the H360 might sound entirely different in Aphrodite. As for me SS is never the answer

 

[Sampajanna]

Excited to read about what you hear. From my perspective, I feel like lots of opportunities are being left on the table. As a businessman, I wonder why Lukasz doesn’t partner with a tube vendor, an adaptor vendor, etc. Or why not make more robust, open tube ports or engineer other safeguards to encourage rolling… or why not integrate an extra few k$ for the small % of returns/repairs and factor that in (within reason as some user error is just that)… As I said regarding SS “almost.” I too would never go that way, but I do not like Chinese tubes for many reasons.

 

[ctydwn]

honest question. what are people doing that has caused so many lampizator dac repairs? just from my personal experience have rolled lots of tubes on the horizon v1, v2 w xdmi and the 360 over the last 4 years. And had the Pacific a year before then.

have employed a number adaptors from Ian, Lazlo and generic. Have never had a single issue or repair needed.

if folks are not doing their homework doesn’t quite seem right that lampizator responsible. their instructions are clear as can be

Tube rolling is such a joy and I hope it remains with the Aphrodite.

My main point: Lampizator Pacific and Horizon DACs sound absolutely incredible, even with stock tubes, imho. But you can also enjoy the beauty of tube rolling and finding the combo that might even elevate your sonic bliss.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

Excited to read about what you hear. From my perspective, I feel like lots of opportunities are being left on the table. As a businessman, I wonder why Lukasz doesn’t partner with a tube vendor, an adaptor vendor, etc. Or why not make more robust, open tube ports or engineer other safeguards to encourage rolling… or why not integrate an extra few k$ for the small % of returns/repairs and factor that in (within reason as some user error is just that)… As I said regarding SS “almost.” I too would never go that way, but I do not like Chinese tubes for many reasons.

You may factor in your thinking that I simply know something about tubes and their production that other people dont know and which is not a common knowledge.

 

[Lukasz "Lampizator" Fikus]

What is it people are doing? And is there a clear warning they should be given? if folks are not doing their homework frankly i do not think lampizator should be responsible. their instructions are clear as can be

The problem is that they will NEVER TELL me what they did. So I cant invent a protective measure

 

[John T]

I am considering the new dac. However, I don’t like new Chinese tubes. I’d almost rather go SS than use those (almost). I don’t like this “use stock tubes” propaganda. Having heard the difference NOS tubes make in every product I have owned with tubes, and given that the difference is not small at all, I find this direction...hmm…. Of course, if you cannot be bothered to change the tubes, that is fine and your prerogative. But Lampi has various threads on this and other forums called “tube roller’s paradise.” It is the Lampi way, or has been til now…. Those threads are amongst the most active ones for a reason.

I'm not suggesting "DON'T Roll TUBES" what I am suggesting is get a solid listening foundation beforehand! Propaganda???? WTF does that mean? If one finds a combination of tubes that hits all the right notes on a consistent basis, what's the point. I'm not searching for some magical tube elixir. I'm enjoying the music, not constantly thinking this can be better. For the some of you who know me well they understand the painstaking applications I have done.
I would wager all day long most of us including myself would have a difficult time distinguishing/comparing some tube applications, back to the system and someone doing the switch. Unless they are some sterile, brash, high gain, ear piercers that some of you like.
I'm the first to admit I got caught up in the tube chase. I still buy tubes. But, the ones I buy are ones I know sound great in my system...

 

[Narayan]

I am considering the new dac. However, I don’t like new Chinese tubes. I’d almost rather go SS than use those (almost). I don’t like this “use stock tubes” propaganda. Having heard the difference NOS tubes make in every product I have owned with tubes, and given that the difference is not small at all, I find this direction...hmm…. Of course, if you cannot be bothered to change the tubes, that is fine and your prerogative. But Lampi has various threads on this and other forums called “tube roller’s paradise.” It is the Lampi way, or has been til now…. Those threads are amongst the most active ones for a reason.

What you call "propaganda" was the designer´s recommendation based on his immense knowledge and experience, which I found refreshing to be honest, If I´m buying a DAC of this caliber I expect it to be the best it can be and to not have to mess around with it at all. Looking at this from afar, I find the constant need to change tubes akin to an addiction, you´re already talking about this even before listening to the Aphrodite, its like asking for ketchup at a three Michelin star restaurant before tasting the food. Here you have one of, if not the best DAC designer in the world presenting his Magnum Opus and people thinking they can improve on his work, wanting to modify it (you too Steve) calling his better judgement "propaganda" and questioning his direction, it´s rather perplexing and a bit discorteous.

 

[Steve Williams]

I totally agree. TBH I look forward to hearing this in the way it was meant. My comment re changing tubes at the event was merely to satisfy guests interest. There is no doubt in my mind that Lukasz has researched all combinations of tubes and has come up with the ultimate for this DAC. And yes my gut instinct about this DAC is that it IS his Magnum Opus and trickle down technology will come to permeate his other models.

 

[Steve Williams]

I totally agree. TBH I look forward to hearing this in the way it was meant. My comment re changing tubes at the event was merely to satisfy guests interest. There is no doubt in my mind that Lukasz has researched all combinations of tubes and has come up with the ultimate for this DAC. And yes my gut instinct about this DAC is that it IS his Magnum Opus and trickle down technology will come to permeate his other models.

Plus I have a kings ransom of vintage tubes and adapters that I would only be too happy to liquidate.

 

[Steve Williams]

Having said all of this and hoping for a set it and forget it I have always compared tube rolling to changing cartridges on my turntable. Different sound for different music plus we all hear differently. The bottom line is Lukasz is presenting us with his vision. To me that is a good thing

 

[Sampajanna]

What you call "propaganda" was the designer´s recommendation based on his immense knowledge and experience, which I found refreshing to be honest, If I´m buying a DAC of this caliber I expect it to be the best it can be and to not have to mess around with it at all. Looking at this from afar, I find the constant need to change tubes akin to an addiction, you´re already talking about this even before listening to the Aphrodite, its like asking for ketchup at a three Michelin star restaurant before tasting the food. Here you have one of, if not the best DAC designer in the world presenting his Magnum Opus and people thinking they can improve on his work, wanting to modify it (you too Steve) calling his better judgement "propaganda" and questioning his direction, it´s rather perplexing and a bit discorteous.

I do have experience with 4 Lampi dacs and lots of other tube products. I have never, ever owned any tube product where modern Chinese tubes could come even close to the NOS ones. This is common knowledge. Are you suggesting otherwise? The Horizon with NOS tubes is very different, not by some small spice either. It makes a big difference. Maybe Lukasz does know something we dont and this dac is different. Maybe the Aphrodite is immune to tube rolling. But the shift in philosophy away from tube rolling is new for Lampi, the company that created so many “tube rolling paradise.” And frankly if it is immune to tube rolling I find that a turn off, not a feature as some of you do. I am not addicted to tube rolling; I am addicted to music and good sound. And you will never convince me that new Chinese tubes compare at all to NOS ones. I have way too many of both here for that. I also found the right combination for my Horizon and havent changed the tubes in a long while. It took some rolling to get there though. I don’t just swap tubes for fun. I too am looking for the right match of tubes for my system… And I also like tubes and find them fun and changes in sound fun too…

 

[Steve Williams]

I do have experience with 4 Lampi dacs and lots of other tube products. I have never, ever owned any tube product where modern Chinese tubes could come even close to the NOS ones. This is common knowledge. Are you suggesting otherwise? The Horizon with NOS tubes is very different, not by some small spice either. It makes a big difference. Maybe Lukasz does know something we dont and this dac is different. Maybe the Aphrodite is immune to tube rolling. But the shift in philosophy away from tube rolling is new for Lampi, the company that created so many “tube rolling paradise.” And frankly if it is immune to tube rolling I find that a turn off, not a feature as some of you do. I am not addicted to tube rolling; I am addicted to music and good sound. And you will never convince me that new Chinese tubes compare at all to NOS ones. I have way too many of both here for that. I also found the right combination for my Horizon and havent changed the tubes in a long while. It took some rolling to get there though. I don’t just swap tubes for fun. I too am looking for the right match of tubes for my system…

Take a deep breath.....no one said not to roll tubes on the Aphrodite

In fact this is from Page 3 of the user's manual

The key highlights

1. 2. 3. 4. Based on an improved Horizon360 state of the art digital engine

Puristic design without preamp or volume control - JUST DAC

“Open” budget - design and execution

No feedback, no silicon, no solid state, no opamps

5. Tube Rolling Paradise

6. Cost allocation is 80% music quality, 10% convenience, 10% looks

 

[Steve Williams]

Page 28 of the manual........

Tube rolling and replacement

W took an expensive and painful decision to sell the DAC with the best tubes we can

find in consistent sustainable supply. Therefore we feel you should not be tempted to

change them for any reason. If you feel that you must try tubes other than supplied,

please follow the guidelines below. Just to give a perspective - we bought quads of ALL

tubes available in the world and tested them in Aphrodite and with tube testers and we

chose the best we could. You can experiment yourself and good luck beating our

choices.

Generally, among our tubes the level of significance for the sound quality is: Rectifier

10%, Input SET stage = 40%, anode loading pentodes 20% , synergy between the two

stages and also rectifiers = 30%.

The sign that the tube needs changing is that there is no sound and/or the tube is cold

and doesn’t glow red filaments in the dark,

White powder inside the glass means oxygen inside = dead tube.