Sounds really good and has balls !Funny to make a comparison to something you claim is no good, no? Oh, I know, “Sounds like SET” is code for sounds really frickin’ good! What is, “Sounds like SS” code for…
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Yes. When I reviewed the Class D amps I used the Lamm M1.2s (hybrid) for comparison. I also have the Lamm ML2 series and agree the Class Ds do not sound like those. In my system all three have/had the same Lamm front end so hearing differences was easy. To my ears the Lamm SET amps do bass just fine -- listen to some of my videos in the oomph thread -- trombones, baritones, bass drum, tympani, and double bass.
I am not surprised your Lamm ML2s do bass just fine, so do Aries Cerat amps…better than fine actually. Thanks for confirming the sound character differences, no one should buy a Class D amp, even the Atmasphere, expecting SET sound.
WW2 !!!Funny to make a comparison to something you claim is no good, no? Oh, I know, “Sounds like SET” is code for sounds really frickin’ good! What is, “Sounds like SS” code for…
I never understood that claim either. I used to have big solid state class A Pass amplifiers. Now I have the Lamm ML2. Of course the rest of the system is different, but I’ve never had better bass in my room. Of course it does not go down to 20 Hz so maybe that is his point, but the quality of bass that I do have I find sounds very natural.
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As Ralph preaches that SET can't do bass, i doubt he has designed his amps to sound like SET.
Can't do deep bass that is.
SET or not, most people's bass doesn't go very deep, and at the same, people constantly overestimate how deep it goes.
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There was a recent discussion about the topic here:
Rockport Lynx vs Magico S5 2024
Wondering if anyone has been able to do a side to side comparison. Similar price point. Both relatively new. Coming from original S5. Have heard the Orions multiple times but not the Lynx. Wondering if it could fill my pretty large space.
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I agree with the observation in post #19, to which I have answered a few posts later.
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when i had the Lamm ML3's in my system the bass was very special. very sexy, of a piece, and enveloping.
the way it worked in my system is that my active bass towers take their signal from the main tower speaker terminal, so they get the character of the main amplifiers for the source. and i have to say that the SET bass signature was addicting. no, it was not as linear as the darts, but it was sexy as hell and i preferred it to the VAC 450 mono block bass and in some ways to the dart bass. that SET bass did have dynamic limitations evident on large music (with my 97db 7 ohm main passive towers), but mostly you did not care.
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That makes sense. The best bass presentation, meaning both the most enjoyable, and the most natural or realistic I’ve ever heard, was from ML3 on David’s Bionor supplemented by the ML2 on JBL subwoofers.
As I do not have a lot of experience with other SETs, I cannot say if this is a characteristic of the typology or something relatively unique to Lamm products. When I was comparing Lamm phono stages to those from other brands, the bass quality also stood out.
Mike, this is precisely how Von Schweikert's work is as well. We have had Trafomatic SE amplifiers on many of our speakers, including the Foundation bass amplifier. Indeed, set up this way, the entire range takes on the character of the amplifier powering the mid and upper ranges. In comparison to fast, neutral solid-state amplification or a large push-pull tube amplifier, all have their advantages, but if you love SET sound, then I'm all for it, provided you have the right loudspeaker.
That said, Steve's big Lamm's monos, while awesome in the mid and upper end, never controlled his big XLF woofers with authority. I'll hear his smaller bass driver and more efficient Zellations with the Lamm soon, and suspect that combination will be better with 32 SE watts
Mike, this is precisely how Von Schweikert's work is as well. We have had Trafomatic SE amplifiers on many of our speakers, including the Foundation bass amplifier. Indeed, set up this way, the entire range takes on the character of the amplifier powering the mid and upper ranges. In comparison to fast, neutral solid-state amplification or a large push-pull tube amplifier, all have their advantages, but if you love SET sound, then I'm all for it, provided you have the right loudspeaker.
That said, Steve's big Lamm's monos, while awesome in the mid and upper end, never controlled his big XLF woofers with authority. I'll hear his smaller bass driver and more efficient Zellations with the Lamm soon, and suspect that combination will be better with 32 SE watts
It sounds like the Wilson speakers were pushing the amplifier’s capabilities. I heard the ML3 on 114 DB horns with extension to about 50 Hz. Completely effortless and natural sounding. Lower base was handled by sensitive JBL subwoofers and 18 W SET.
I think Steve made a good choice by keeping the electronics and switching the speakers.
It’s basically Ralph making this claim and since he designs competitor technologies…well…
Wrong, just wrong. I have the measurements to show it’s wrong. My in-room RTA measurements show my bass goes to 20 Hz…with a SET.Can't do deep bass that is.
SET or not, most people's bass doesn't go very deep, and at the same, people constantly overestimate how deep it goes.
***
There was a recent discussion about the topic here:
Rockport Lynx vs Magico S5 2024
Wondering if anyone has been able to do a side to side comparison. Similar price point. Both relatively new. Coming from original S5. Have heard the Orions multiple times but not the Lynx. Wondering if it could fill my pretty large space.
I agree with the observation in post #19, to which I have answered a few posts later.
KR Audio amps on Wilson X1 controlled the bass very well…Wilson’s early flagship was much easier to drive than later ones. What it did with Kodo drums…wow!Mike, this is precisely how Von Schweikert's work is as well. We have had Trafomatic SE amplifiers on many of our speakers, including the Foundation bass amplifier. Indeed, set up this way, the entire range takes on the character of the amplifier powering the mid and upper ranges. In comparison to fast, neutral solid-state amplification or a large push-pull tube amplifier, all have their advantages, but if you love SET sound, then I'm all for it, provided you have the right loudspeaker.
That said, Steve's big Lamm's monos, while awesome in the mid and upper end, never controlled his big XLF woofers with authority. I'll hear his smaller bass driver and more efficient Zellations with the Lamm soon, and suspect that combination will be better with 32 SE watts
Well, when people haven’t owned a SET nor appropriate speakers for a SET and still feel compelled to comment…Yeah - that’s right @morricab , go ’n’ get them☝
The question to be asked is not a generic , non documented RTA measurement. We should address frequency response, loudness and distortion. Sometimes bass extension is mostly due to room gain.
Poor measurements are meaningless and most times misleading. IMO REW with a calibrated microphone or equivalent is the minimum standard for debates,
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