Problems with believability in audio

[Al M.]

Okay, quote examples.

As if that wasn't obvious.

 

[bonzo75]

Here is an example.

A very typical example of a subjective opinion is that digital is as good as analog for realism. Tbh, subjectively mp3 is too, so we might as close all forums as there is nothing to discuss.

 

[morricab]

For me its very simple .
Do i want to stay in the room listening to music , yes or no .


Life is to short to constantly battle whether it sounds like " unamplified music "

I spend money on gear ,the only thing i want back is enjoyment.


A full FMA system does that for me .
Next in line is FMA on passive speakers .

Convergent audio is pretty good too as are several others

Case closed

You can comfortably retire from forum life at this point with this position on the hobby.

 

[andromedaaudio]

You can comfortably retire from forum life at this point with this position on the hobby.

I certainly could but .....
I like to tease a bit

 

[morricab]

I certainly could but .....
I like to tease a bit

In that case, this is the last response you will get to a post from me as it is clear it would be a complete waste of time to engage further.

 

[andromedaaudio]

 

[PeterA]

Okay, quote examples.

The claims are made, but rarely ever supported. I found this out in my system thread whenever I asked for examples.

The barrier to believability, in my opinion, is the industry’s obsession with ever decreasing amounts of measurable distortion. The result is presentations that are dry, flat, and clean, but they lack life. I want a system to fill the listening room with waves and bursts of energy and to present the music on the recording in a balanced and holistic way.

The examples of systems doing something right, IMO are from videos shared by thundersnow, Tim, and some of Bonzo’s. Despite the quality of these phone videos over YouTube, they make me want to keep listening because I enjoy what I’m hearing. These systems are not the lowest distortion. They are not the latest and greatest gear, but they are fairly efficient, and they make the music sound alive.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

Your phrase that her air is in your room is not nonsense at all, a good recording will capture the air around the microphone and a good system will recreate that air in your room. The fact that Ron couldn't hear it suggests he doesn't hear so well. You're lucky to have experienced this phenomenon and now have a reference.
Very few amp/speaker combos can achieve this, what combo does it best for you?

Ron could definitely hear it, he agreed with my assessment. Nonsense more in that it sounds kind of crazy, not that other audiophiles wouldn't know what I meant.

The best Ive heard is at home with my Chord Dave, Soulnote A-3 and Evolution Acoustics MM2 speakers. Putting the A-3 into the rig was the first time I think I have heard this level of realism. No show and not even most dealer environment are conducive to this sort of presentation unfortunately.

 

[Al M.]

The claims are made, but rarely ever supported. I found this out in my system thread whenever I asked for examples.

The example that started the current debate on this thread already has been discussed.

As for other examples, not everything needs to be named. Unless you want the eruption of personal fights that inevitably will cause this thread to be shut down.

Things are clearly obvious to some, less so to others.

 

[PeterA]

The example that started the current debate on this thread already has been discussed.

As for other examples, not everything needs to be named. Unless you want the eruption of personal fights that inevitably will cause this thread to be shut down.

Things are clearly obvious to some, less so to others.

I think those making claims should be able to support them. I do not see SoundMann’s comments describing his personal views about his system in a way that presumes universal agreement. I respect his experience of comparing in real time an acoustic music performance to the direct to disc recording of that performance. That is a level of experience that I have certainly never had. And I think it would be most informative.

And the claim was made that there are “some” or “a few” members here who think their opinion is objective fact or “the truth”. I don’t see it. And I think those making the claims should be able to defend them. But I guess examples will not be forthcoming. You are right, it doesn’t seem obvious to me at least.

 

[sbo6]

My BGW and David Yee OTL tube headphone amp are notable components themselves, not to mention my Micro Seiki turntable and tonearm (consistently best in class), as well as my JVC HA-D990 headphones, which are not only the consumer version of a highly regarded Victor Studio model, but also highly rated by Stereophile magazine.

Let's get back to the subject at hand, shall we?

 

[Elliot G.]

No need to insult us, Ked. My guess is that those of us who have spent considerable money on home rigs have a high pride of ownership and likely think their music sounds good at home. But I don't think any of us are stupid enough to believe that what we are hearing at home is an actual sonic facsimile of the real thing. Subjective hearing is, however, the final arbiter of our system satisfaction far more than price.

The real thing is by its nature the "real thing". Watching a movie is not the real thing anymore than listening to an album is the 'real thing". Striving for accurate reproduction of instruments, voices and acoustic space ( when its there) are all wonderful and achievable goals to some degree. It seems the degrees are the arguments. No matter how great the recording and how great the system it is not the real thing since the real thing is singular and in most cases isn't repeatable. If you go to see the same concert two nights in a row it isn't the same thing!!!
The discussions IMO have become repeating over and over the same old arguments with very little progress trying to solve the unsolvable.
We as a group are "interested" in the opinions of others, reviewers, forums, you tube, etc. when even those who are reviewers hearing the same thing don't have any reasonable responses to why they hear totally opposite sound. Why two reviewers at the same magazine never hear the other's references.
What are the goals? what is the end game? what it the destination? If you know what you are seeking you have a much better chance of obtaining it. If you goal is to have your system sound like Metallica live in a football stadium I would suspect that your system will sound very different than someone that sits front row at Carnegie Hall and only listens to chamber music.
Pick a lane people.
What are you trying to achieve then go after it. It all has compromises and to be very frank the gear today is mostly excellent.

 

[fbhifi]

The real thing is by its nature the "real thing". Watching a movie is not the real thing anymore than listening to an album is the 'real thing". Striving for accurate reproduction of instruments, voices and acoustic space ( when its there) are all wonderful and achievable goals to some degree. It seems the degrees are the arguments. No matter how great the recording and how great the system it is not the real thing since the real thing is singular and in most cases isn't repeatable. If you go to see the same concert two nights in a row it isn't the same thing!!!
The discussions IMO have become repeating over and over the same old arguments with very little progress trying to solve the unsolvable.
We as a group are "interested" in the opinions of others, reviewers, forums, you tube, etc. when even those who are reviewers hearing the same thing don't have any reasonable responses to why they hear totally opposite sound. Why two reviewers at the same magazine never hear the other's references.
What are the goals? what is the end game? what it the destination? If you know what you are seeking you have a much better chance of obtaining it. If you goal is to have your system sound like Metallica live in a football stadium I would suspect that your system will sound very different than someone that sits front row at Carnegie Hall and only listens to chamber music.
Pick a lane people.
What are you trying to achieve then go after it. It all has compromises and to be very frank the gear today is mostly excellent.

^^^ what he said!

Great post from someone who can see the forest for the trees.

 

[Ron Resnick]

The idea that there is some objective truth in audio -- something true for any and all and exists apart from their belief -- is bs silly.

This is correct.

Subjective is euphemism for lack of exposure.

This is incorrect.

Subjective is also proportional to money spent.

This is incorrect and nonsensical.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If you goal is to have your system sound like Metallica live in a football stadium I would suspect that your system will sound very different than someone that sits front row at Carnegie Hall and only listens to chamber music.

Yes! Musical genre preference drives loudspeaker preference.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes! Musical genre preference drives loudspeaker preference.

Based on your umm, subjective (wink wink) opinion because classical, jazz, vocals, and rock is best played on horns.

 

[Elliot G.]

What should I have for dinner---------------- Horns
What should I wear tonight--------------------horns
What car should I drive-----------------------------horns
Who should I sleep with -----------------------------horns
what color is the sky----------------------------------horns

LOL it never ends . One thing for sure you need to listen to the broken record as well

 

[andromedaaudio]

In that case, this is the last response you will get to a post from me as it is clear it would be a complete waste of time to engage further.

I guess you would talk to me again if id buy a SET and Horns lol

 

[Argonaut]

I guess you would talk to me again if id buy a SET and Horns lol

Do give it a rest … Ironically the one person of late who has referred to “Horn’s” incessantly , often off topic and out of context is you !

 

[Lagonda]

For tweeter balance these days i adjust them to 2,5 db down at 10 khz with normal toe in.
1 db down on tw axxis

This 2.5 db downslope at 10 khz ( in room response) is widely accepted as sounding the most natural in a home environment and is used by many Ls manufacturers

Andro, what are you smoking ? It looks like you are posting in a different thread than the rest of the contributors ! I know you are impressed with FM A, and your own speakers, but give it a rest !