My experience with Lampizator

[ErikM]

lol. This is a very funny thread.. I guess what I wonder is why would someone even bother going through all the trouble borrowing a product to evaluate in the first place if they really didn't intend to buy it?

 

[Robin Hood]

lol. This is a very funny thread.. I guess what I wonder is why would someone even bother going through all the trouble borrowing a product to evaluate in the first place if they really didn't intend to buy it?

That's easy. Most people are pre-sold by what they read, great reviews and exaggerated opinions of fellow audiophiles. This creates a burning desire to own or at least try out the product to see (hear) if it lives up to it's reputation. As long as it doesn't cost anything but a little time, why not try?

When borrowers are forced to put some skin in the game, like restocking fees or shipping costs, then the number of people who would borrow the product with no intention to buy drops dramatically. On the other hand the seller wants to put the product in as many qualified hands as possible and here the only qualification is the credit card transaction approval.

 

[PeterA]

I think I know Ian pretty well. He owns one or two DACs currently and is looking for an upgrade. He also had an MSB DAC in house for trial and as far as I know, he wanted to compare those three DACs to this highly praised Lampizator tube unit. I'm confident that he would have bought this unit if he liked it more than what he already has.

There is no evidence to suggest that he "bothered going through all the trouble borrowing a product to evaluate in the first place if (he) really didn't intend to buy it?" I simply do not think this was the case. That is an unfair assessment of the situation.

I had thought this thread had died a peaceful death, but then I read this presumption and felt I needed to comment.

 

[MadFloyd]

Awwww. A happy ending. So Mad, what is your plan for digital?

No idea, Geardaddy. I'm a bit sad I didn't get to try the Golden Gate, not just because of the upgraded parts but because it would have had the tubes (101d replicas) that might made the difference, but the deal I was offered didn't include any audition - it was a final sale and based on my experience with the Big 7 I couldn't be that optimistic.

So I'm back to using my Playback Designs which is smack in between the Big 7 and the MSB Analog. I would audition the Berkely Alpha Reference if there wasn't a manufacturing backlog (I hear 7 months and counting for some people).

 

[BlueFox]

Don't worry about it Ian. Seven months from now there will be a new, better, improved DAC that has a nuance better sound than current DACs.

 

[rockitman]

I'm a bit sad I didn't get to try the Golden Gate, not just because of the upgraded parts but because it would have had the tubes (101d replicas) that might made the difference, but the deal I was offered didn't include any audition ...

And your surprised by that ? lol
Your a tire kicker Ian.

 

[adyc]

No idea, Geardaddy. I'm a bit sad I didn't get to try the Golden Gate, not just because of the upgraded parts but because it would have had the tubes (101d replicas) that might made the difference, but the deal I was offered didn't include any audition - it was a final sale and based on my experience with the Big 7 I couldn't be that optimistic.

So I'm back to using my Playback Designs which is smack in between the Big 7 and the MSB Analog. I would audition the Berkely Alpha Reference if there wasn't a manufacturing backlog (I hear 7 months and counting for some people).

You said many times that you don't like tube sound. Why do you feel disappointed not able to try GG?

 

[Al M.]

Don't worry about it Ian. Seven months from now there will be a new, better, improved DAC that has a nuance better sound than current DACs.

I doubt that anywhere near the price point of the Berkeley Reference DAC there will be, within 7 months, a new DAC that is better than that -- unless it comes from Berkeley (especially for the all important PCM, where all the music is). Hearing what the Alpha DAC 2 does in my system, and having informed myself about the technology, I have faith in that company's output. In fact, if I had the money and no chance to hear the Reference DAC before purchase (I do though), I would still buy it. And yes, if I'd have to wait 7 months, I would do that too.

 

[bonzo75]

There already is, at a lower price point. The Lampi which is why 4 BADAs on Audioshark have shifted

Ian, your statement on PD being between Lampi and MSB analog, should carry a disclaimer that the whole Lampi audition was on an incorrect setting resulting in weaker bass, with Jriver upsampling that isn't recommended, and no comparison was done with burnt in PCM, yet leading to great reviews from Al M.

 

[MadFloyd]

You said many times that you don't like tube sound. Why do you feel disappointed not able to try GG?

I dislike some of the qualities that can occur with tubes, such as the softness of transients, distortion, blurring of images and coloration. I do however like the bloom, perceived texture, and 3D layering.

Al M.'s system has some of the best transients I've heard and while his source is solid state, his amps are tubes. I heard his system twice and have been impressed both times. So I have a love/hate thing going on with tubes and mostly I'm very very cautious because I've owned a number of tubed products but had varying degrees of success, got caught up in tube rolling (where I spent a small fortune).

 

[MadFloyd]

And your surprised by that ? lol
Your a tire kicker Ian.

I didn't say I was surprised by it, Christian. And why do you need to stoop to name calling? Wanting to audition expensive products before committing to purchase makes me a tire-kicker? If there's one thing I've learned over the course of my audiophile journey is that synergy between components, room and preferences matters a lot. It's taken me a long time to get where I am now and I can tell you simply buying gear on reputation or review doesn't guarantee success. Forum enthusiasm is similar to published reviews in that they highlight products that may be worthy of a closer look but neither provide guarantees; you should always audition a product in your own system if you can.

My funds are limited and there are a few different upgrades I would like to make in my system (including my phono stage which you have previously pointed out as being a weak link) and therefore I choose to be cautious. It doesn't help that it's very hard to sell components on Audiogon these days.

 

[MadFloyd]

There already is, at a lower price point. The Lampi which is why 4 BADAs on Audioshark have shifted

Ian, your statement on PD being between Lampi and MSB analog, should carry a disclaimer that the whole Lampi audition was on an incorrect setting resulting in weaker bass, with Jriver upsampling that isn't recommended, and no comparison was done with burnt in PCM, yet leading to great reviews from Al M.

bonzo, I should have been more clear: when I say 'between' I meant in character, not quality. In the same way some might say that Pass Labs electronics, while solid state, have some tube-like qualities, I would say the same about the Playback Designs.

 

[caesar]

Gentlemen,

Sorry for the behavioral economics talk, in advance. But why is it so hard to accept that high end audio is an experience good. This means that people cannot realiably judge the quality or appeal of these goods without first consuming them. That's why trial periods exist for direct market brands and that's why dealers are happy to hand out demos. Otherwise, we would all buy based on the measurements.

I know that Lampizator appeals to many folks ( at least right now - and I hope it still does as the company continues to innovate), and I liked what I have heard at shows. But why excoriate Madfloyd for putting up a lot of money in a foreign bank account to actually experience the piece in his system?

We all have different tastes in this hobby - no 2 systems or rooms are alike. Why not, instead, respect him for asserting his own particular taste and having the courage to move away from the herd of fans and away from the DSD pushing elites and choose his own path? Just because he doesn't share a particular taste of gear or format doesn't mean that others' pleasure of listening to the unit suffers.

Madfloyd, have you tried Luxman or TotalDac? It strikes me that these brands will have the richness of tone color that tubes bring to the table, with less of a downside.

 

[Al M.]

There already is, at a lower price point. The Lampi which is why 4 BADAs on Audioshark have shifted

I wasn't talking about regular BADAs, but about the Reference DAC.

 

[adyc]

There are many DACs Ian can try like Trinity, CH Precision especially Trinity as it almost has the amount of loyalty as Lampizator.

 

[Al M.]

There are many DACs Ian can try like Trinity, CH Precision especially Trinity as it almost has the amount of loyalty as Lampizator.

The Berkeley Reference DAC appears to have a great base of loyalty among its owners as well, at one third of the price of the Trinity...

50 grand for a DAC? Seriously?

 

[caesar]

The Berkeley Reference DAC appears to have a great base of loyalty among its owners as well, at one third of the price of the Trinity...

It seems they are having manufacturing issues if they having such a hard time getting the units out... I am hearing some of these have been resolved, but still it's nearly impossible to hear a unit ...

And I do wonder if folks who rave about them have heard the other dacs in their systems for comparisons, or are just buying based on reputation and reviews by a couple guys (whose taste you may not share). As this thread suggests, sometime the hype of loyal fans about a "great value" makes you want to experience the unit, but when you actually put it in your system, you may find it's just hype - to you...

 

[PeterA]

Gentlemen,

Sorry for the behavioral economics talk, in advance. But why is it so hard to accept that high end audio is an experience good. This means that people cannot realiably judge the quality or appeal of these goods without first consuming them. That's why trial periods exist for direct market brands and that's why dealers are happy to hand out demos. Otherwise, we would all buy based on the measurements.

I know that Lampizator appeals to many folks ( at least right now - and I hope it still does as the company continues to innovate), and I liked what I have heard at shows. But why excoriate Madfloyd for putting up a lot of money in a foreign bank account to actually experience the piece in his system?

We all have different tastes in this hobby - no 2 systems or rooms are alike. Why not, instead, respect him for asserting his own particular taste and having the courage to move away from the herd of fans and away from the DSD pushing elites and choose his own path? Just because he doesn't share a particular taste of gear or format doesn't mean that others' pleasure of listening to the unit suffers.

Nice post, caesar.

 

[Al M.]

So I have a love/hate thing going on with tubes and mostly I'm very very cautious because I've owned a number of tubed products but had varying degrees of success, got caught up in tube rolling (where I spent a small fortune).

I have never engaged in tube rolling.

As far as the output quality of tubes is concerned, a great power supply is much more important than premium tubes. What use is a premium tube if it doesn't operate under the optimal conditions that it's designed for?

If, as you say, the Lampi was a bit soft on transients, I am starting to wonder if the Lampi features as competent a high-voltage-DC power delivery to the tubes as is supplied by the BorderPatrol external power supplies for my amps.

 

[Al M.]

It seems they are having manufacturing issues if they having such a hard time getting the units out... I am hearing some of these have been resolved, but still it's nearly impossible to hear a unit ...

And I do wonder if folks who rave about them have heard the other dacs in their systems for comparisons, or are just buying based on reputation and reviews by a couple guys (whose taste you may not share).

Well, I know at least of one Reference DAC owner who has heard the Trinity as well, and while thinking highly of the latter, he really, really loves his DAC.

As for the manufacturing issues, Berkeley are dependent on chassis fabrication elsewhere, and the problems mainly appear to lie there.