If Money and and Real Estate weren't a concern, what Speaker would you select?

[Bruce B]

Bruce, perhaps this is the wrong thread in which to discuss this, but could you elaborate by explaining what you mean about getting small scale performances correct with these large Wilson speakers, or large speakers in general? I brought up this very subject in another thread when I described my listening impressions of both the Magico Q7 and the Wilson XLF and was immediately criticized. Apparently those speakers do get all scales correct and the set ups I heard must have been flawed. I was explaining that in my experience smaller speakers have portrayed small scale music more accurately that really big speakers have. It's just my experience but a few other members seem to adamantly disagree.

The whole matter is when I sit down in front of large speakers, especially 4-tower system, a solo vocalist or violinist is not 7' tall and 6' wide. This is totally unbelievable. Or piano for that matter. I know a close mic'd piano can sound huge, but unless the engineer has done some crazy things, the performance just kills it for me.

 

[flez007]

Avalon Isis

 

[Rufus McDufus]

Raidho D5 probably, with Constellation monoblocks, or Soulution.

 

[LL21]

The whole matter is when I sit down in front of large speakers, especially 4-tower system, a solo vocalist or violinist is not 7' tall and 6' wide. This is totally unbelievable. Or piano for that matter. I know a close mic'd piano can sound huge, but unless the engineer has done some crazy things, the performance just kills it for me.

Interesting...does anyone know why this seems to happen with larger speakers. Fortunately I don't much hear it from my system, but ever once in a while, I will hear a few bars where the voice seems large. I do wonder. Like soundstaging accuracy, I have found my system improved in this area when isolation came into the system. Images stilled, separated from each other and solidified...so too did their placement. I wonder if large images is somehow related to a combination of the amount of air being moved with the fact that the speaker enclosure may not be entirely rigid...a lot of displaced air from a not totally rigid enclosure means a lot of displacement across too wide of an area...too large an image? I did not get this imaging issues when I heard the Arrakis...the most inert speaker I have heard.

 

[PeterA]

The whole matter is when I sit down in front of large speakers, especially 4-tower system, a solo vocalist or violinist is not 7' tall and 6' wide. This is totally unbelievable. Or piano for that matter. I know a close mic'd piano can sound huge, but unless the engineer has done some crazy things, the performance just kills it for me.

Thanks Bruce. I've experienced the same thing.

 

[marty]

I have now just finished on my X1s...they have Ultra 5s underneath, a 3kg weight inside each bass port

Lloyd, I have never heard of anyone doing something even remotely like this so I would like to ask a few questions:

1) Your speakers are approximately 600 lbs each. What is the intended benefit of adding an extra 6 lbs or so inside the bass port? It doesn't seem like his would add significantly to the overall speaker so as to meaningfully change its mass or moment of inertia. Does the port resonate in some way that decreases when the weight is added? Must the weight be added inside the port specifically?

2) Forget about the weight for the moment. What is the size of the weight and to what degree does it obstruct the port? As I'm sure you know, the airflow through the port is rather precisely calculated. Does the additional weight alter the airflow in a meaningful way?

3) What the heck are you trying to do, kill poor Dave Wilson? He's going to need his "Depends" when he reads this one!

 

[hifikontoen]

Vapor Audio Nimbus White and JBL DD65000

I have listened to the predecessors of DD65000: That is the DD66000.
They were very good, so I think the DD65000's are that too.

In the list, I voted for the TAD Ref. , but would have included the JBL's as an option.

There are cheap speakers which are outstanding, too.
I will stick to cheap high-end speakers (instead of the "high-end" priced as those on the list) unconditionally of future wealth since I am a 20% economist by trade

 

[hifikontoen]

Regarding SoundLab:

Yes, I own them and love them.

I have audititioned them once only. They impressed me with a huge soundscape. The brand is really a rarity where I live.

In general, I think hi-fi (and maybe especially high-end) is much about branding (but not only about it).
Some brands manages to become popular by their finish, marketing etc.

I do not have enough experience (regarding listening to or reading facts about) Soundlab to say that it deserves popularity.

 

[LL21]

Lloyd, I have never heard of anyone doing something even remotely like this so I would like to ask a few questions:

1) Your speakers are approximately 600 lbs each. What is the intended benefit of adding an extra 6 lbs or so inside the bass port? It doesn't seem like his would add significantly to the overall speaker so as to meaningfully change its mass or moment of inertia. Does the port resonate in some way that decreases when the weight is added? Must the weight be added inside the port specifically?

2) Forget about the weight for the moment. What is the size of the weight and to what degree does it obstruct the port? As I'm sure you know, the airflow through the port is rather precisely calculated. Does the additional weight alter the airflow in a meaningful way?

3) What the heck are you trying to do, kill poor Dave Wilson? He's going to need his "Depends" when he reads this one!

Hi Marty,

Its actually a 10lb weight (typo) and I hear you on air port flow...no doubt I am doing something wrong. The added weight on top of the modules works. The Ultra 5s underneath work. This idea of sticking something in the bass port is questionable. It does work in my case, but I am not sure I would ever recommend it to anyone else.

As you can see, I created Threads for Ultra 5s and Wilsons and now Entreq Vibbs for older Wilson modules. But I will not be starting a new thread about sticking an obstruction in a bass port.

1. I am convinced it is NOT a replicable improvement.
2. There is simply something going on with my speakers elsewhere...placement to wall...20 year old speakers getting a bit creaky...something odd. Adding that touch of weight inside the bass port gets rid of a slightly fattened "whoomp" at 60hz...I don't know why, it just does.
3. 10lbs wont get rid of a vibration that shakes the whole 600lbs...but if there is something causing a portion of the lower modules inner workings to vibrate (which might weigh only 30-50 lbs), then a 10lb weight might help.

Again, this is just a random thing and I am not recommending it to anyone else...it just happens to work. I will say it does not work perfectly, but its improvements are better than the ever-so-slightly truncated bass I can hear on 1 out of maybe 50 beats. But at least the 'whoomp' is diminished to almost negligible. No room/system is perfect certainly not mine...and this little tweak is free and happens to work.

Finally, I will almost certainly expect Ultra 5s and even the Entreq Vibb Eaters to work on my X1s in any other room we should move to someday. The 10lb weight in the bass port? Sure, i'll try it both ways, but I sense that in a better room, that 60hz 'whoomp' will not be there, and we wont be using the weights (other than as part of a work out!)

 

[RBFC]

It's possible that the added weight in the port is actually "tuning" the port (airflow & dimensions) to slightly alter the frequency response of the bass driver.

Lee

 

[microstrip]

Regarding SoundLab:
(...)
I do not have enough experience (regarding listening to or reading facts about) Soundlab to say that it deserves popularity.

I have long time experience with them. If their intrinsic size and limitations (dynamics, ultra low bass and absence of sharp pinpoint imaging) do not affect seriously the way you listen to music you will find that they really deserve the fame they have.

 

[flat6]

i'd try to get Western Electric horns & electronics.
a pair of Kinoshita Rey Audio RM-7V might do nicely too.

 

[morricab]

Living Voice Vox Olympian without a doubt. I have heard many of the speakers people are naming here and from what I have heard nothing is as good as what I heard from this system (with all Kondo gear!) in Munich last year. It was utterly shocking and amazingly real sounding.

 

[LL21]

Living Voice Vox Olympian without a doubt. I have heard many of the speakers people are naming here and from what I have heard nothing is as good as what I heard from this system (with all Kondo gear!) in Munich last year. It was utterly shocking and amazingly real sounding.

Can you make any comparisons to what you have heard elsewhere in other SOTA systems? Any comments would be much appreciated!

 

[Robin Hood]

For me it would have to be either the Genesis 1.2 or the MBL X-Treme. Since money and real estate are not a concern I would base my final selection on which loudspeaker system sounds best for both multichannel audio and stereo. Based on my familiarity with line source dipoles I would vote for two pairs of Genesis 1.2 loudspeaker systems and design the perfect room to accommodate them. I suppose the MBL omnis sound great in stereo but I’m not sure about multichannel.

 

[GaryProtein]

For me it would have to be either the Genesis 1.2 or the MBL X-Treme. Since money and real estate are not a concern I would base my final selection on which loudspeaker system sounds best for both multichannel audio and stereo. Based on my familiarity with line source dipoles I would vote for two pairs of Genesis 1.2 loudspeaker systems and design the perfect room to accommodate them. I suppose the MBL omnis sound great in stereo but I’m not sure about multichannel.

ONLY two pair? One for the front and one for the rear?

What about the surrounds and sides? Do I hear FIVE pair so you can have a 10.X surround system!!!!

Make Gary Koh happy.

Don't forget your 500 amp service!

 

[Bruce B]

For me it would have to be either the Genesis 1.2 or the MBL X-Treme. Since money and real estate are not a concern I would base my final selection on which loudspeaker system sounds best for both multichannel audio and stereo. Based on my familiarity with line source dipoles I would vote for two pairs of Genesis 1.2 loudspeaker systems and design the perfect room to accommodate them. I suppose the MBL omnis sound great in stereo but I’m not sure about multichannel.

The Newport show will have the mbl X-Treme's and also in another room, a 5.1 surround system of mbl 101e MkII speakers! Should be fun!!

 

[morricab]

Can you make any comparisons to what you have heard elsewhere in other SOTA systems? Any comments would be much appreciated!

Apogee Grand with all NAT tube gear (except for subwoofer, which used built-in Krell amp)
Odeon No. 38 with NEM (extremely good Russian gear)...one of my favorites
Acapella Triolon Excalibur with all Einstein gear (OTL amps)
Odeon No. 32 with all Einstein gear (OTL amps)
Dali Megaline with Audio Research Ref gear
Apogee Studio Grand with Lamm amps, Silvaweld preamp or KR Audio amps
Infinity IRS Beta with KR Audio and Simaudio amps
Acoustat Spectra 4400 with KR Audio
Apogee Scintilla with Silvaweld and Sphinx Project 16 amp (best I have heard Scintillas)
Usher big reference horn speakers with KR Audio amp
Audio Note System with upper level E model speakers, Jinhro amp, CDT 3.1x and DAC 3.1x
Tannoy Westminster with Accuphase system
Thiel CS3.7 with KR Audio, Octave monos, Einstein pre, or VAC amp
Lansche Goa biamped with KR audio
AudioPlan Konzert II speakers with all Kondo system (M1000 pre, GakuOh amps, DAC 1000)
Wilson Grand SLAMM mKIII with KR audio, Conrad johnson big tube amps (model eludes me)
Apogee Full Range with Plinius and STAX monster SS amps (huge and 600 watts)
STAX ELS-F81 with Vacuumstate amps (won't play loud but is SOTA for resolution and holography)
Wilson Alexia with Audio Research Ref gear (latest ref stuff)
Martin Logan CLX with AR ref and McIntosh
Marten Design (big ones)
Lumen WHite with Ayon Ref 52B monos (that was damn good)

There are many more but you get the idea

I take the Living voice system above all those and more within a blink of an eye.

 

[LL21]

Great stuff...thanks. I have heard the ML CLX (with Descents), Wilson Alexia, Thiel 3.7, Wilson Grand Slamm III, and Genesis 1.1.

What is it that makes you choose the Living Voice so easily above these others? You mention lifelike presentation...is it also lifelike scale, bass power...is it detail, decay? Most curious!

Apogee Grand with all NAT tube gear (except for subwoofer, which used built-in Krell amp)
Odeon No. 38 with NEM (extremely good Russian gear)...one of my favorites
Acapella Triolon Excalibur with all Einstein gear (OTL amps)
Odeon No. 32 with all Einstein gear (OTL amps)
Dali Megaline with Audio Research Ref gear
Apogee Studio Grand with Lamm amps, Silvaweld preamp or KR Audio amps
Infinity IRS Beta with KR Audio and Simaudio amps
Acoustat Spectra 4400 with KR Audio
Apogee Scintilla with Silvaweld and Sphinx Project 16 amp (best I have heard Scintillas)
Usher big reference horn speakers with KR Audio amp
Audio Note System with upper level E model speakers, Jinhro amp, CDT 3.1x and DAC 3.1x
Tannoy Westminster with Accuphase system
Thiel CS3.7 with KR Audio, Octave monos, Einstein pre, or VAC amp
Lansche Goa biamped with KR audio
AudioPlan Konzert II speakers with all Kondo system (M1000 pre, GakuOh amps, DAC 1000)
Wilson Grand SLAMM mKIII with KR audio, Conrad johnson big tube amps (model eludes me)
Apogee Full Range with Plinius and STAX monster SS amps (huge and 600 watts)
STAX ELS-F81 with Vacuumstate amps (won't play loud but is SOTA for resolution and holography)
Wilson Alexia with Audio Research Ref gear (latest ref stuff)
Martin Logan CLX with AR ref and McIntosh
Marten Design (big ones)
Lumen WHite with Ayon Ref 52B monos (that was damn good)

There are many more but you get the idea

I take the Living voice system above all those and more within a blink of an eye.

 

[garylkoh]

I started to build a house with a listening room - it was going to be 11.5m x 18.6m - to put a pair of Genesis 1.1's in.

Here's a 180-degree pan of the land taken from the winery building - the foundation pad was already compacted and done - the white spot it about 2/3 of the way towards the right. This picture was taken 4th Aug 2001 - just before Genesis Technologies went bankrupt. A year later, 1st Aug 2002, I started Genesis Advanced Technologies.