GG, Nagra HD, Aqua Formula, and SGM server.

audio.bill · Jan 22, 2017

caliaripaolo said:
a friend of mine heard "La Scala" and was not impressed.
But to be honest I never heard such DAC.
He preferred Bricasti instead.

Keep in mind that the LaScala MkII was just recently upgraded with Aqua's Optologic circuitry which was developed for the Formula DAC, and reportedly offers a significant improvement over the first MkII version. Could be even more of a consideration if what your friend auditioned was the original (non-MkII) LaScala.

Mike Lavigne · Jan 22, 2017

audio.bill said:
Keep in mind that the LaScala MkII was just recently upgraded with Aqua's Optologic circuitry which was developed for the Formula DAC, and reportedly offers a significant improvement over the first MkII version. Could be even more of a consideration if what your friend auditioned was the original (non-MkII) LaScala.

and.....I've not heard the Aqua Formula without the SGM server, so my comments only pertain to that combination. no idea how the Formula sounds with a more pedestrian server feeding it. it would make sense that whatever server is feeding whatever dac it's being compared directly to,.......should level the field. mostly, but not always, things do work that way. sometimes, the more neutral and unforgiving gear needs everything optimal to attain balance and musicality, where it rewards that effort with a higher ceiling. the more forgiving gear might not be as restricted by the less optimal ancillaries.

we tried to load the Aqua Formula drivers onto my maxed out CAPSv4 server to see how it sounded with just JRiver on a less optimal server (although still pretty good) but the way my server is set up with Audiophile Optimizer we were not able to load the drivers. we got 'this' close.

microstrip · Jan 22, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
(...) we tried to load the Aqua Formula drivers onto my maxed out CAPSv4 server to see how it sounded with just JRiver on a less optimal server (although still pretty good) but the way my server is set up with Audiophile Optimizer we were not able to load the drivers. we got 'this' close.

I have been reading about HQplayer and have a doubt - the version included in the SGM includes specific custom algorithms or just those referred in the Signalist webpage?

Mike Lavigne · Jan 22, 2017

microstrip said:
I have been reading about HQplayer and have a doubt - the version included in the SGM includes specific custom algorithms or just those referred in the Signalist webpage?

Ed would need to answer that. although as rigorously righteous as I understand the HQP author to be, I would be very surprised if that were the case (that it has custom algorithms).

EuroDriver · Jan 22, 2017

microstrip said:
I have been reading about HQplayer and have a doubt - the version included in the SGM includes specific custom algorithms or just those referred in the Signalist webpage?

The version of HQ Player which the SGM uses is the Windows standard version.

However the influence which the operating system makes on the sound quality achieved by HQ Player is very big. Since the event in Munich, we have gone through 3 revisions of the operating system. In the same period, we only had one hardware upgrade which we retrofitted to earlier SGM's

EuroDriver · Jan 22, 2017

I have heard the Aqua Formula being delivered Music tracks by a very well respected Music Server which was Roon ready, but did not do any upsampling. The SQ differential was very large.

Ron Resnick · Jan 22, 2017

Dear Ed,

How do you describe the sonic differences between the Formula and the La Scala Mk II?

What type of listener might prefer one over the other?

microstrip · Jan 22, 2017

EuroDriver said:
The version of HQ Player which the SGM uses is the Windows standard version.

However the influence which the operating system makes on the sound quality achieved by HQ Player is very big. Since the event in Munich, we have gone through 3 revisions of the operating system. In the same period, we only had one hardware upgrade which we retrofitted to earlier SGM's

Thanks - I can see that the operating system should be critical. Just a theoretical question. Can we imagine that the maximum sound quality would be achieved up sampling with the HQplayer to a large file, and then using a minimum of computing resources and power to send the file bits to the DAC?

EuroDriver · Jan 22, 2017

Ron Resnick said:
Dear Ed,

How do you describe the sonic differences between the Formula and the La Scala Mk II?

What type of listener might prefer one over the other?

Ron,

We have not had the chance to compare the Formula with the Scala II. We hope to get our hands on La Scala II from the Dutch distributor soon, so that we can compare it to our Formula which arrives at the workshop in Holland this week

EuroDriver · Jan 22, 2017

microstrip said:
Thanks - I can see that the operating system should be critical. Just a theoretical question. Can we imagine that the maximum sound quality would be achieved up sampling with the HQplayer to a large file, and then using a minimum of computing resources and power to send the file bits to the DAC?

There are 2 PC strategies, and one PC strategies. We used to get the best results with 2 PC's, JRiver to JPlay, and HQ Player to NAA.

However as our motherboard power supply got better and better with the implementation of a dual choke power supply, the sound quality of a single box overtook the two box solutions we had. We have heard quite a few of the latest micro box implementation and find that they don't compete with a well done one box solution.

So to answer your question, all of our experiments have shown that the best sound quality is achieved by HQ Player running fast or even overclocked in a single computer which has its RF under control, and its cooling well implemented

spiritofmusic · Jan 22, 2017

Edward, fewer boxes always welcome
Just ask Audiophile Bill who's acquired the 3 box Aesthetix Io phono, each box nearly the size of an SGM

microstrip · Jan 22, 2017

EuroDriver said:
There are 2 PC strategies, and one PC strategies. We used to get the best results with 2 PC's, JRiver to JPlay, and HQ Player to NAA.

However as our motherboard power supply got better and better with the implementation of a dual choke power supply, the sound quality of a single box overtook the two box solutions we had. We have heard quite a few of the latest micro box implementation and find that they don't compete with a well done one box solution.

So to answer your question, all of our experiments have shown that the best sound quality is achieved by HQ Player running fast or even overclocked in a single computer which has its RF under control, and its cooling well implemented

Thanks. Digital is really a strange world!

I could understand that with the Aqua you converted everything to 352 kHz, the DXD rate. Does HQplayer change the bit content of DXD files when outputting 352 kHz ?

EuroDriver · Jan 23, 2017

microstrip said:
Thanks. Digital is really a strange world!

I could understand that with the Aqua you converted everything to 352 kHz, the DXD rate. Does HQplayer change the bit content of DXD files when outputting 352 kHz ?

HQ Player applies a digital filter of the user's choice. This digital filter is processed with 64 bit floating appoint math, and then reduced to a bit depth selected in the HQ Player settings window. Unless the user chooses [none] in the digital filter drop down box, the bit content does change even when there is no sample rate conversion going on

Mike Lavigne · Jan 25, 2017

I had been using the unpowered Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva USB cable with my GG for the last few months, and have really enjoyed it. Great cable, particularly for the money. better than the powered one it replaced.

2 weeks ago when Ed was here and we were listening to the Nagra HD, I received a package with the Sablon unpowered USB cable with the 'secret sauce'. on the Sablon website it's called the 'Panatela Reserva USB cable (enhanced for 2017)'. I only briefly, for one evening and morning, listened to that cable while it was breaking in. it did sound a bit better than the previous 'non-secret sauce' version. but then when I got home that evening Ed was already listening to the Aqua Formula, which needed a powered USB, and we did not have a Sablon example. so for the last 2 weeks I have used the stock USB which came with the Aqua in the box. obviously it was 'ok' as I've really enjoyed the Aqua Formula.

yesterday, the 'powered' version of the new 'secret sauce' Panatela Reserva USB (enhanced for 2017) arrived and I inserted it into the system last night. Mark Coles had warned me not to listen critically for 24 hours, so i'll only say I noticed an up-tic from the get go in terms of overall lowering of the noise floor and dynamic life, and as it warmed up over the first few hours it did get better, but was wooly here and there.....but a net gain. then this morning a slight step up from the previous night, and no more woolyness.

tonight, now fully 24 hours later on the repeat, it has gone to a new level of 'not there-ness'. overall the Aqua Formula is now more vivid and it's like the picture went from Blue Ray to 4k, more focus and fine nuance and depth of color. more decay trail, more ambient substance, more bass texture and 'life'.

nice.

bravo Sablon. highly recommended.

Blue58 · Jan 26, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
"tonight, now fully 24 hours later on the repeat, it has gone to a new level of 'not there-ness'. overall the Aqua Formula is now more vivid and it's like the picture went from Blue Ray to 4k, more focus and fine nuance and depth of color. more decay trail, more ambient substance, more bass texture and 'life'.

nice.

bravo Sablon. highly recommended".

Highly recommended indeed and a similar up-tick is achieved with the update to the Reserva power cords particularly the "not there-ness" and density of the decay trail. This has brought another level of calm and relaxation to my system whilst preserving the " life / live-ness" of the performance. A neat trick! Bravo+1

Blue58

spiritofmusic · Jan 27, 2017

So, it seems Formula doing pcm via HQP in SGM may v well beat GG and Dac8 at 512, w Formula not able anyhow to go full 512
Mike, this is kind of analogous to yr prev Trinity that was pcm only, yes?
So, Formula is a straight swap for Trinity, w the diversion of GG in between?
What I'd REALLY like to know is if alongside what appears to be class leading neutrality and decay, is Formula TRULY as good as GG at analog tone, density and heft, and Nagra at analog like fluidity?
I've heard SGM both with Dac8 which is stellar for dynamics and timing, and GG where it's stellar for density, I really would love to know if Formula straddles both camps, or whether really it's a neutrality/disappearing act specialist
If it's mainly the latter, this will be a boon in some systems like yours where you are looking to strip out sonic signature of components, but less so in others
Eg in my tube amps/full range drivers-high efficiency spkrs system, something like a TVC based preamp Townshend Allegri that I've demoed has literally no sonic character ie uber neutral, but unfortunately the music is also rendered w no character or balls
Ie no character in the amp and no character in the music
IMHO/YMMV etc
I'm wary as a result of so called uber neutral/disappearing act gear
Where is this all going w how SGM/Formula/Sablon Reserva USB compares to yr tt and tape?

LL21 · Jan 27, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
I had been using the unpowered Sablon Audio Panatela Reserva USB cable with my GG for the last few months, and have really enjoyed it. Great cable, particularly for the money. better than the powered one it replaced.

2 weeks ago when Ed was here and we were listening to the Nagra HD, I received a package with the Sablon unpowered USB cable with the 'secret sauce'. on the Sablon website it's called the 'Panatela Reserva USB cable (enhanced for 2017)'. I only briefly, for one evening and morning, listened to that cable while it was breaking in. it did sound a bit better than the previous 'non-secret sauce' version. but then when I got home that evening Ed was already listening to the Aqua Formula, which needed a powered USB, and we did not have a Sablon example. so for the last 2 weeks I have used the stock USB which came with the Aqua in the box. obviously it was 'ok' as I've really enjoyed the Aqua Formula.

yesterday, the 'powered' version of the new 'secret sauce' Panatela Reserva USB (enhanced for 2017) arrived and I inserted it into the system last night. Mark Coles had warned me not to listen critically for 24 hours, so i'll only say I noticed an up-tic from the get go in terms of overall lowering of the noise floor and dynamic life, and as it warmed up over the first few hours it did get better, but was wooly here and there.....but a net gain. then this morning a slight step up from the previous night, and no more woolyness.

tonight, now fully 24 hours later on the repeat, it has gone to a new level of 'not there-ness'. overall the Aqua Formula is now more vivid and it's like the picture went from Blue Ray to 4k, more focus and fine nuance and depth of color. more decay trail, more ambient substance, more bass texture and 'life'.

nice.

bravo Sablon. highly recommended.

Mark Coles is a remarkable industry player. He fights super-hard to keep value in the equation at all times to his loyal customers (I am one of them), constantly experiments and refines his designs to push his performance, and is always available to answer questions.

pjwd · Jan 27, 2017

Gents - on the slight diversion of USB cable have any compared Sablon to Curious - it displaced lightspeed and Total dac in my system - always on the lookout

Phil

elescher · Jan 27, 2017

LL21 said:
Mark Coles is a remarkable industry player. He fights super-hard to keep value in the equation at all times to his loyal customers (I am one of them), constantly experiments and refines his designs to push his performance, and is always available to answer questions.

Well said!

I have used the Curious Cable on/off depending on my system configuration, but mainly as a secondary link for Regen, et al. I will say that in my system the new Sablon USB cable has brought on a whole new listening experience for me. Not only is it better with all the usual checklist items, but it also brings a very special and unique insight into recordings that is simply amazing. Plus, it won't break even the piggy bank.

spiritofmusic · Jan 27, 2017

Not a user of Mark's Sablon Reserva Elite USB, but over 3 yrs I've upgraded a whole Audience Au24 loom to first Sablon Panatella/Corona loom, and now currently Reservas
The stuff is spectacular
An amazing tonal density and speed, w no seeming obscuring of transparency or highlighting of frequency extremes
Dare I say it, truly neutral, coherent and pretty darn near perfect
Have heard the new data-only USB on the SGM/Dac8, and it brings a stress-free presentation that really competes w analog
Mark Coles truly is the MasterChef

GG, Nagra HD, Aqua Formula, and SGM server.

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