Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[PeterA]

Guys can we please move cable measurements to another thread? There are many threads available on cables for that, pick one, here is one https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/best-of-the-best-cables-ptas-2022-buyers-guide.33983/

Bonzo, I thought this is the anything goes thread where we can discuss food dishes and pet animals and middle-aged guys pole dancing.

 

[Al M.]

Guys can we please move cable measurements to another thread? There are many threads available on cables for that, pick one, here is one https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/best-of-the-best-cables-ptas-2022-buyers-guide.33983/

Except that this topic is fully relevant to the discussion in this thread.

I had hoped we were over hyper-sensitive whining about "off-topic" discussions. And this is clearly on-topic.

And, as Peter said.

 

[bonzo75]

Except that this topic is fully relevant to the discussion in this thread.

I had hoped we were over hyper-sensitive whining about "off-topic" discussions. And this is clearly on-topic.

And, as Peter said.

It was on topic then getting to be same bank and forth between micro and Peter that is on many threads.

 

[bonzo75]

Bonzo, I thought this is the anything goes thread where we can discuss food dishes and pet animals and middle-aged guys pole dancing.

Those other topics are fine. Cable measurement, digital vs analog, and pin point, black backgrounds are not. They lead to same discussions nothing new

 

[PeterA]

It was on topic then getting to be same bank and forth between micro and Peter that is on many threads.

I am flattered, but I think you forgot Al and Brad.

 

[morricab]

I am flattered, but I think you forgot Al and Brad.

I recommend you try some Goertz cables...they are not very expensive (ok the largest silver speaker cables are not that cheap but they are a lot of silver) and I think they are probably the most “true” cables I have tried over the years. The silver Sapphire interconnects are particularly good. The copper version is very inexpensive as far as these things go. Give it a try...

 

[morricab]

Goertz demonstrated that their silver foil, ultra low inductance cables could basically track a 12Khz square wave exactly.

Product Review

Clearly they can do better than the Shunyata, with or without the compensation network...

Also there is a test on Audioholics that shows the Goertz speaker cables are measurably flatter to much higher frequencies than the other cables on test.

 

[microstrip]

Not sure, Francisco, if your argument is entirely valid. Here is an interesting video on squarewave measurements in cables where the manufacturer claims it makes a significant difference. It is not clear to me that this would directly relate to capacitance:

Sorry, just look at the time scale. The differences are not in the audio band. I am not going to loose my time looking at advertisements of manufacturers, meant to capture the attention of naive audiophiles. Do also want to spend your time debating the manufacturers who claim that their product use quantum effects or pure electrons?

Square waves and cables is undergraduate laboratory work, not rocket science. But it looks really nice in pictures.

 

[microstrip]

And yet, you would agree that they do result in clearly audible differences? Surely this must show up in measurements somewhere and not only at -140db, which I think we both would agree would not be the kind of differences that are so easily heard. I myself have conducted single blind interconnect comparisons with experienced listeners and they could not only hear the differences easily of changes but they could, after hearing them extensively sighted, pick out clearly certain ones blind.

Sorry, it is not what is being discussed. I think we are not interested in debating again and again subjective aspects of cables in this thread.

 

[PeterA]

Sorry, it is not what is being discussed. I think we are not interested in debating again and again subjective aspects of cables in this thread.

Francisco, that is precisely what we are discussing. Tang shared two videos and discussed cable differences in the two videos. Members then commented on the subjective differences they heard and their subjective preference for the videos based on the different cables.

 

[microstrip]

Francisco, that is precisely what we are discussing. Tang’s shared two videos and discussed cable differences in the two videos. Members then commented on the subjective differences they heard and their subjective preference for the videos based on the different cables.

Yes, Peter. But my point is that the videos show objective differences in the measurements, something that should not exist in such videos. Cables are not equalizers.

Feel free to ignore my point. Some people believe the earth is flat and are very happy with such idea.

 

[bazelio]

I think you pretty much heard what I am hearing.

- All horn sound better with Japanese regardless of music or recording.
- Percussion in video 2 (I think you mean tympani drum ) does sound a little thuddy. A more articulation will be good. I am in the process of verifying this aspect with a lot more records in different music.
- Mid is denser all the way with the Japanese cable. When you listen to vocal you will know which is the one to go to. If I just take out the phono cable and replace with SME stock it will lean down the mid. The Japanese cable has the mid leaning toward Western Electric type sound imo. If you like the flat tone of GM70 and Telefunken you will say the cable is color.
- The loudness on both videos is not significantly different if not the same. The sense of openness and unrestrained is more on video 1 because the presentation is more birdeye distant. I did mention that with Kuro I could feel more space surrounding the orchestra. Also The tone is leaner making distance between sound of each instrument more apart. Tail end sound also comes with a bit more reverb.
- Cable is not the only difference. Video 2 was taken after the direct electricity line from pole to room had been made.
- Tube rolling has been experimenting. Mullard, Telefunken and Mazda on Emt phono and ML3.

Thank you for confirming.

 

[PeterA]

Tang, What cartridge did you use on these videos and did you adjust it at all during the time you installed the power service? What is your favorite cartridge on the 3012R?

 

[Tango]

These days I have been listening a lot Wagner, Mahler exciting pieces. Here is Wagner's Die Walkure by Erich Leinsdorf I would like to recommend. I have a dozen Die Walkure but sonically this is the best. Interpretation wise it is also very good imo. I actually like Solti and Stokowski most but sonically could not find records that get close to this dirc-to-disc by Sheffield Lab. It is performed by LA Philharmonic. SL27-5L28. You can use this to test your system. Do the warp9 and you will fully understand how important the "clean treble" is. It is ear fatiguing after listening if the sound is very direct and not clean.

I noice my videos have been tilting to one side lately I dont know what's wrong with my eyes when recording.

 

[Tango]

Tang, What cartridge did you use on these videos and did you adjust it at all during the time you installed the power service? What is your favorite cartridge on the 3012R?

These videos were recorded using Master Sig5R. The vta is to my liking, the point where +/- 1 card can go either way and still excellent palpability. I have not tried my Neumann DST and DST62 in my own system. Still waiting for ddk to ship 2 of my 3012R's back to be used with these Neumann. The cartridge connector of the arm need to be changed from sme type to emt star type. So I cannot say what my most favorite cart yet on the SME.

 

[PeterA]

Thank you Tang. It must be nice to have four identical arms for four different cartridges. Many options for listening. I like the new video. I thought I had this recording, but it turns out that it is the similar looking Leinsdorf/LA Phil on Sheffield Lab of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet.

 

[bonzo75]

These days I have been listening a lot Wagner, Mahler exciting pieces. Here is Wagner's Die Walkure by Erich Leinsdorf I would like to recommend. I have a dozen Die Walkure but sonically this is the best. Interpretation wise it is also very good imo. I actually like Solti and Stokowski most but sonically could not find records that get close to this dirc-to-disc by Sheffield Lab. It is performed by LA Philharmonic. SL27-5L28. You can use this to test your system. Do the warp9 and you will fully understand how important the "clean treble" is. It is ear fatiguing after listening if the sound is very direct and not clean.

View attachment 90264

I noice my videos have been tilting to one side lately I dont know what's wrong with my eyes when recording.

Going by memory I preferred the Solti version you had recorded a year or more ago. It was more organic. It would be good if you can record that again, as you have deleted it

 

[morricab]

Going by memory I preferred the Solti version you had recorded a year or more ago. It was more organic. It would be good if you can record that again, as you have deleted it

You mean the 1965 Solti on Decca?

 

[bonzo75]

You mean the 1965 Solti on Decca?

Yes

 

[morricab]

Yes

I got the Lp box set about 15 years ago at record show in Zurich...essentially unplayed. First time I ever saw black label Royal Sound Stereo from Decca