Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[bonzo75]

Every end of year I reassess my system. Now I am wondering how I could possibly said my system sounded great back then. Embarrassing.

This is quite good, just different

 

[Mikem53]

Great zot that's a lot. I suppose those are track listings. I looked at conductor names to see if I recognized any. Only some include conductor names, those along with orchestras are what I look at when faced with many choices and uncertainty on what to choose. Nothing in your list stood out.

Can't say I'm an expert on Rimsky-Korsakov but Scheherazade is widely loved. It is frequently used or referenced at WBF with several videos posted. I'm gonna guess that I see the Reiner with Chicago Symphony version (LSC-2446) more often here than others. It is an excellent recording, one of the best RCAs. That's the one I imprinted on years ago. And the ones I know are on vinyl.

Ansermet with the Swiss that @dctom posted above sounds interesting. @PeterA plays Mehta with the LAPO (SXL 6731). I have the Reiner (several copies), von Karajan on DG (483 6397 ), Pavel Kogan with Moscow State Orch which is another Classic Records reissue on clear vinyl, and a few more in my back room stacks that I canna remember. The world of streaming is not my world - if you can find the Reiner that's my first choice.

Scheherazade is a favorite of @bonzo75, he may recognize something.

View attachment 73189

Okay stop the presses ... the listing on your screen tricked me suggesting the conductor is Sergei Levitin (?) But the Kirov made me pause. I think that's actually Valery Gergiev. I have not heard it but ... Gergiev is Russian and competent if not great on some works and that's his orchestra. If it is he, then try that and get back to us with impressions!

Does this picture match to what you see ?

View attachment 73190

Yes, I will try that first, Thank you ! This is the list of Albums from Amazon HD streaming.
They have an amazing selection of music.. I get to try it out first, all the variations of my favorite music..
SQ is descent And allows me to narrow down my choices for purchase. Also get to hear some new music I normally wouldn’t purchase. I have a few versions of Scheherazade on CD I need to dig out too.
warming up the amp now..

 

[Mikem53]

The one with Fritz Reiner living stereo is a very good reissued recording and a very good performance and everyone can access it to use it as a standard. The Thomas Beecham I like a lot though I prefer the Reiner from a system evaluation perspective.

Apart from being a very enjoyable piece I like it for evaluation because the start of the second movement plays through many instruments softly, individually before getting to the trombones and the fourth movement is an all out assault so you can test different aspects. The digital recording is a bit spiky but still enjoyable

Thank you and Happy NewYear! I grew up with classical music as my father had it playing all the time in the background. I have my favorites, but Never deep dived into the best performance, or which was well recorded. Appreciate the info.

 

[ddk]

Can you say yet?

HI Tim,
Haven't had a chance to set it up yet, very hectic year end.

david

 

[dctom]

If there are times for the track listings, would mind the trouble please to send those? I'd like to compare with other Scheherazades.

1 The Sea And Sinbad's Ship 10:05
2 The Story Of The Kalandar Prince 11:11
3 The Young Prince And The Young Princess 9:36
4 Festival At Baghdad - The Sea 12:26
Total Time: 43:18

 

[tima]

Yes, I will try that first, Thank you ! This is the list of Albums from Amazon HD streaming.
They have an amazing selection of music.. I get to try it out first, all the variations of my favorite music..
SQ is descent And allows me to narrow down my choices for purchase. Also get to hear some new music I normally wouldn’t purchase. I have a few versions of Scheherazade on CD I need to dig out too.
warming up the amp now..

You're welcome. I didn't realize you had CD capability. The Gergiev may be great - let us know. Try the Reiner on CD from AnalogProductions.

 

[tima]

1 The Sea And Sinbad's Ship 10:05
2 The Story Of The Kalandar Prince 11:11
3 The Young Prince And The Young Princess 9:36
4 Festival At Baghdad - The Sea 12:26
Total Time: 43:18

Thank you dctom.

 

[morricab]

Yes, I will try that first, Thank you ! This is the list of Albums from Amazon HD streaming.
They have an amazing selection of music.. I get to try it out first, all the variations of my favorite music..
SQ is descent And allows me to narrow down my choices for purchase. Also get to hear some new music I normally wouldn’t purchase. I have a few versions of Scheherazade on CD I need to dig out too.
warming up the amp now..
View attachment 73191

Giving it a listen today!

 

[morricab]

Giving it a listen today!

Prefer the RCA Living Stereo version by Reiner. A more recent one on Pentatone, although recorded lower in level, sounded very good and has better capture of the space the orchestra is playing in. Perhaps not as much fun though...

 

[Mikem53]

Great zot that's a lot. I suppose those are track listings. I looked at conductor names to see if I recognized any. Only some include conductor names, those along with orchestras are what I look at when faced with many choices and uncertainty on what to choose. Nothing in your list stood out.

Can't say I'm an expert on Rimsky-Korsakov but Scheherazade is widely loved. It is frequently used or referenced at WBF with several videos posted. I'm gonna guess that I see the Reiner with Chicago Symphony version (LSC-2446) more often here than others. It is an excellent recording, one of the best RCAs. That's the one I imprinted on years ago. And the ones I know are on vinyl.

Ansermet with the Swiss that @dctom posted above sounds interesting. @PeterA plays Mehta with the LAPO (SXL 6731). I have the Reiner (several copies), von Karajan on DG (483 6397 ), Pavel Kogan with Moscow State Orch which is another Classic Records reissue on clear vinyl, and a few more in my back room stacks that I canna remember. The world of streaming is not my world - if you can find the Reiner that's my first choice.

Scheherazade is a favorite of @bonzo75, he may recognize something.

View attachment 73189

Okay stop the presses ... the listing on your screen tricked me suggesting the conductor is Sergei Levitin (?) But the Kirov made me pause. I think that's actually Valery Gergiev. I have not heard it but ... Gergiev is Russian and competent if not great on some works and that's his orchestra. If it is he, then try that and get back to us with impressions!

Does this picture match to what you see ?

View attachment 73190

Yes, I listened to Valery Gergiev as listed above.. Excellent recording and music ! I listened out of enjoyment.. Now onto Fritz Reiner as @bonzo75 suggested. Then try to evaluate what I’m hearing..

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, I listened to Valery Gergiev as listed above.. Excellent recording and music ! I listened out of enjoyment.. Now onto Fritz Reiner as @bonzo75 suggested. Then try to evaluate what I’m hearing..

The Fritz Reiner most people use here is the reissued LP. That recording is very good, especially for a reissue. The digital is nice but has digititis. I haven't head the Gergiev recording.

 

[Mikem53]

The Fritz Reiner most people use here is the reissued LP. That recording is very good, especially for a reissue. The digital is nice but has digititis. I haven't head the Gergiev recording.

Here is what I’m listening to now, fritz Reiner and Chicago symphony. A 24 bit/96 Recording.. The first movement has that quiet string solo, very smooth.. can’t say Im hearing any digititus, In fact it’s very smooth on top, great recording ! I have no analog to compare it to, but know what I’m listening for.. This 24/96 recording is much sweeter on top than the 16/44 version I also played..
I’m also breaking in a new preamp that’s in week 3+ of constant use.. and still getting better with time.
This piece of music made me forget all about my setup... it’s truly a magnificent performance. So many intricate pieces woven together, so flowing , yet always changing direction.. The way they carry the melody throughout in so many variations.. Always recognizable when I hear it, but now it’s an experience listening to it with a great recording.. Glad I saw this thread..

 

[tima]

When I listened to dctom's Ansemet Scheherazade, without a listening comparison my first thought was he had a quicker tempo than Rainer. Turns out that depends on where in the piece you listen...

Scheherazade track times

Ansermet, L'Orchestre De La Suisse Romande
Decca SXL 2268
1 The Sea And Sinbad's Ship 10:05
2 The Story Of The Kalandar Prince 11:11
3 The Young Prince And The Young Princess 9:36
4 Festival At Baghdad - The Sea 12:26
Total Time: 43:18

Reiner, Chicago Symphony
RCA LSC-2446
1 The Sea And Sinbad's Ship 9:02
2 The Story Of The Kalandar Prince 11:30
3 The Young Prince And The Young Princess 11:55
4 Festival At Baghdad - The Sea 11:36
Total Time: 44:03

Reiner's Scherazade takes 45 seconds longer than Ansermet. Not that big of a difference, for this type of orchestral music.

But look how that difference is distributed.
1. Anserment is longer: 1 minute 2 seconds
2. Reiner is longer: 29 seconds
3. Reiner is longer: Two minutes 19 seconds !
4. Ansermet is longer: 50 seconds

FWIW, the full name of the 4th movment of the suite is: Festival At Bagdad; The Sea; The Ship Goes To Pieces On A Rock Surmounted By A Bronze Warrior

If you have another copy of Scheherazade, kindly take a moment and send me its track times in a PM. TIA

 

[bonzo75]

But these differences are there with all pieces? The Thomas beecham is slightly slower than the above two on all movements. Celibadache will likely be very slow for all his pieces, always. Doesn't mean anything.

In violin pieces heifetz will likely be faster on all

 

[tima]

But these differences are there with all pieces? The Thomas beecham is slightly slower than the above two on all movements. Celibadache will likely be very slow for all his pieces, always. Doesn't mean anything.

In violin pieces heifetz will likely be faster on all

Of course it means something. It's not new that conductors or performers have their interpretation of how long a beat lasts. The timing signature says how many beats in a measure, but not how long they last. Sometimes composers will give an indication of what that should be, but only generally. Consider the simple term 'andante' - what does it mean? Students get sheet music sometimes with a metronome setting as guidance. The fact that it happens is a given, but it is still interesting to look at different interpretations from different conductors - at least it is to me. I enjoy learning about the composer and music we listen to - it can enhance appreciation. Try it!

edit: Try some forums where people talk about music, conductors, and composers. Discussion of pace and tempo and how long a section or movement takes is quite common. For many, the world of the audiophile is as much about music as it is equipment evaluations and gear.

 

[Tango]

The American Sound looks very simple inside out. Nothing fancy. The Flintstone of turntable (@ddk )...but it works.

 

[Al M.]

Here is what I’m listening to now, fritz Reiner and Chicago symphony. A 24 bit/96 Recording.. The first movement has that quiet string solo, very smooth.. can’t say Im hearing any digititus, In fact it’s very smooth on top, great recording ! I have no analog to compare it to, but know what I’m listening for.. This 24/96 recording is much sweeter on top than the 16/44 version I also played..
I’m also breaking in a new preamp that’s in week 3+ of constant use.. and still getting better with time.
This piece of music made me forget all about my setup... it’s truly a magnificent performance. So many intricate pieces woven together, so flowing , yet always changing direction.. The way they carry the melody throughout in so many variations.. Always recognizable when I hear it, but now it’s an experience listening to it with a great recording.. Glad I saw this thread..
View attachment 73304

I have the XRCD. It's excellent, great highs.

 

[bonzo75]

Of course it means something. It's not new that conductors or performers have their interpretation of how long a beat lasts. The timing signature says how many beats in a measure, but not how long they last. Sometimes composers will give an indication of what that should be, but only generally. Consider the simple term 'andante' - what does it mean? Students get sheet music sometimes with a metronome setting as guidance. The fact that it happens is a given, but it is still interesting to look at different interpretations from different conductors - at least it is to me. I enjoy learning about the composer and music we listen to - it can enhance appreciation. Try it!

edit: Try some forums where people talk about music, conductors, and composers. Discussion of pace and tempo and how long a section or movement takes is quite common. For many, the world of the audiophile is as much about music as it is equipment evaluations and gear.

My point was each one has a different pace and tempo and that is always part of what we use to judge what we think of the performance. So track times will always be different for all pieces across conductors. So not sure what we get buy looking at times (they will be different) as compared to listening.

For example it is very clear this Beethoven 9 from Barbican with Simon rattle I had was extremely fast and I did not like that tempo, but looking at time won't help anything. Bohm is the slowest but not necessarily the best (though Placido Domingo is very good)

 

[tima]

So not sure what we get buy looking at times (they will be different) as compared to listening.

Of course you don't. But I don't mind.

 

[bonzo75]

Of course you don't. But I don't mind.

It's like spotting a speaker and saying that's a cone, that's a horn. Obvious but doesn't give anything. Until you listen