Zero Distortion Digital Dangal: Jazzhead's System - Neodio Origine, Trinity, Aqua Formula, Stahltek

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, we all run the hobby in different ways.
I know a guy who spent £2k on an all Rega system in 1999, hasn’t looked beyond, and is as happy as Larry.
I’m on my fifth and final major (either new or majorly upgraded components) system.
A lot of what I’ve bought I heard first at multiple dealers, customers houses and my own home, eg my first system, all-Roksan.
Some of what I’ve bought I only heard elsewhere, not at home.
A small number I bought on a whim with no demo elsewhere.
What I’ve never felt compelled to do is the endless procession of compares.
So here you are, you’ve heard Formula sound less than fully stellar at Arshad’s. Yet others own Formula, have sweated the details on power and room acoustics, and are getting excellent results, not reporting this leaness you highlight.
This is no criticism of Arshad’s system or your desire to hear his stuff.
It’s a comment that nothing of substance can really be drawn from the demo, other than what you experienced at his is a simple audio snapshot in time, and cannot be more substantive than hearing these units in your own home system, that has been optimised to sound as good as possible, can surely be the only way to really make a ranking.
And realising that ranking is a purely subjective one, and can’t be compared to any other ranking of the same dacs in another listener’s v well optimised and familiar (to them) set up.
So, any allusions to these rankings being anything other than personal/subjective, and suggesting they’re in any way objective, is surely misleading.
Re coming over, I don’t want to do any compares. I am totally happy w my choice of components, and don’t want to disturb my set up to a/b anything. Other than a couple more Sablon Elite pwr cords and a full complement of Stacores, I have no interest in comparing gear here. And I certainly don’t want to physically disturb my setup.
You were always v welcome to just take in my system for what it is, and chill out here at the Chapel, so do forgive me for just not wanting to be another resource for compares.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes his home system wasn't optimised to sound good with Neodio

 

[spiritofmusic]

Why not? Surely any deficit for the Origine would be for the other digital too?
FWIW, the acoustics and dedicated lines in the loft here have really allowed my digital to go from exemplary in London (running balanced power there and here), to totally involving and alive here.

 

[bonzo75]

You should also start a blog, but on your own system

 

[Jazzhead]

^ Adding the mooks for “a touch of the supernatural...” magic stuff Jazz, using mooks for spooks is my kind of deeper and darker audio science absolutely, enjoy but don’t forget to exorcise regularly for additional safety.

Tao you nailed it ) .. Mooks for spooks ..... Add a couple of Himalyan Salt Lamps and its seance time .

 

[Jazzhead]

I’m glad to be contributing to Arshad’s future digital enjoyment by providing his Mooks.
The Neodio is always a brand I was interested in, good to hear it was sounding so positive.

Thanks Marc , look forward to receiving them .

 

[Jazzhead]

Congrats on the voyage of discovery! Very exciting!

Speaking of discovery, were you one of those looking at the new Zanden 3000 Mk II preamp? I heard it is insanely good. Whereas a number had told me they preferred original CJ GAT to original Zanden Ref (and Koda 15 as well)...I read someone say an owner of CJ GAT 2 prefers the Zanden 3000 Mk II.

I believe that was "Marcus" 's friend . He did say he would get back to us after a listen , but have not read any follow up after ....

 

[Jazzhead]

@ Jazzhead: do you have any current experiences with other cd-transports /-drives than with your stahl tec ? If yes, it would be very interesting how much it influence the sound in general ?

Hi Simone , I previously had the Metronome Kalista and a Vistus Master Series Transport , though with only the Opis Prime DAC in house then , amongst the current crop . I used to connect the Stahl Tek pair via their proprietary i2S link via a Purist cable , which I found to be a good match .

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hi Arshad, v happy the Mooks are going to a new home where they’ll be appreciated more LOL.

 

[Jazzhead]

It is not only the transport, the AES/EBU cables and power cables also strongly influence sound quality. I have four types of digital cables (Transparent Reference XL , Kimber KS2120 , Madrigal and Moghami) and they sound very different.

agreed Micro , my current AES cable from Audio Revelation , is probably not up to snuff with the rest of my Stage 3 cabling . Having a choice of cables , would have made the compares more valid.

 

[Jazzhead]

Hi Arshad, v happy the Mooks are going to a new home where they’ll be appreciated more LOL.

We do fall in and out of luv rather easily )

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Simone , I previously had the Metronome Kalista and a Vistus Master Series Transport , though with only the Opis Prime DAC in house then , amongst the current crop . I used to connect the Stahl Tek pair via their proprietary i2S link via a Purist cable , which I found to be a good match .

So how did the stahltek transport compare to metronome transport?

 

[Jazzhead]

So how did the stahltek transport compare to metronome transport?

Stahl Tek transport obviously with its matching Opus DAC .
Preferred the Stahl Tek over the Kalista , both into the Vitus Master DAC using a Stage 3 AES cable.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Any reasons why Stahl Tek are no more? They were certainly one of the bright new things in digital.
Trinity have survived and prospered, Stahl Tek not.

 

[asiufy]

It must be reiterated , that the Stahl Tek DAC was being played after a gap of a little over one year . Although it was warmed up. ,am sure it will loosen and relax with further playing time . The Formula , I have heard in another system with Pass Labs amplification and Kaiser Kawero speakers . There is an inherent leanness in its presentation , which mostly will not appeal to a tube lover looking for bloom and mid bass fullness . Regarding Mike's review on the Formula , it was almost exclusively when paired with the SGM and not so much the matching transport . Up sampling to dxd via the SGM most likely played to its strengths and also given his superior room produced what he was hearing . Given a more compromised room , I need a touch of the supernatural (read:Mooks) to give me that performance bump.

Respectfully, I'd ask you to try the Formula without any of the doo-dads, footers, trinkets, etc. Just lay it on a flat, stable surface.
The reason I ask is that I find it extremely puzzling that you thought it to be "lean". There's nothing lean about any of the Aqua products, much on the contrary. If there's a negative, is that it's much too bloomy on certain systems.
My guess is those footers (+ cables) might not be doing it justice. I just had a situation with a client who got an Aqua and was also bothered by lack of bass ("leaness"). At first he thought it could've been his transport, so he tried a different one, and it got worse! So he changed a power cord + interconnect, and voilà! Great bass...

 

[sbo6]

That's because you never compared properly anywhere, and you don't let me come over to yours to do a proper one

Says the guy with the subjective review who considers almost all digital sources to exhibit digititus... Oh, brother..

So your way of comparing is the right way and his (and others) is wrong?

 

[sbo6]

Ked, we all run the hobby in different ways.
I know a guy who spent £2k on an all Rega system in 1999, hasn’t looked beyond, and is as happy as Larry.
I’m on my fifth and final major (either new or majorly upgraded components) system.
A lot of what I’ve bought I heard first at multiple dealers, customers houses and my own home, eg my first system, all-Roksan.
Some of what I’ve bought I only heard elsewhere, not at home.
A small number I bought on a whim with no demo elsewhere.
What I’ve never felt compelled to do is the endless procession of compares.
So here you are, you’ve heard Formula sound less than fully stellar at Arshad’s. Yet others own Formula, have sweated the details on power and room acoustics, and are getting excellent results, not reporting this leaness you highlight.
This is no criticism of Arshad’s system or your desire to hear his stuff.
It’s a comment that nothing of substance can really be drawn from the demo, other than what you experienced at his is a simple audio snapshot in time, and cannot be more substantive than hearing these units in your own home system, that has been optimised to sound as good as possible, can surely be the only way to really make a ranking.
And realising that ranking is a purely subjective one, and can’t be compared to any other ranking of the same dacs in another listener’s v well optimised and familiar (to them) set up.
So, any allusions to these rankings being anything other than personal/subjective, and suggesting they’re in any way objective, is surely misleading.
Re coming over, I don’t want to do any compares. I am totally happy w my choice of components, and don’t want to disturb my set up to a/b anything. Other than a couple more Sablon Elite pwr cords and a full complement of Stacores, I have no interest in comparing gear here. And I certainly don’t want to physically disturb my setup.
You were always v welcome to just take in my system for what it is, and chill out here at the Chapel, so do forgive me for just not wanting to be another resource for compares.

Couldn't have said it better, hear hear....

 

[Jazzhead]

Respectfully, I'd ask you to try the Formula without any of the doo-dads, footers, trinkets, etc. Just lay it on a flat, stable surface.
The reason I ask is that I find it extremely puzzling that you thought it to be "lean". There's nothing lean about any of the Aqua products, much on the contrary. If there's a negative, is that it's much too bloomy on certain systems.
My guess is those footers (+ cables) might not be doing it justice. I just had a situation with a client who got an Aqua and was also bothered by lack of bass ("leaness"). At first he thought it could've been his transport, so he tried a different one, and it got worse! So he changed a power cord + interconnect, and voilà! Great bass...

Hi Asiufy , must admit that my system is not ideal for instant compares , with its comprehensive grounding schemes constantly chopping and changing , unplugging and re plugging the earth cables does disturb the equilibrium . It takes a while to settle back . Having said that the Origine was subjected to the same the first time it was inserted , it had settling time the second time Ked visited and sounded even better . I think my Stage 3 Leviathan power cords are pretty up to it , so don't think can point any fingers there . Possibly the AES cable was a mismatch , hope to investigate when time permits . Having heard the Formula elsewhere , would be hard to classify it as full bodied. Seasons best to you .


P.S. Also do take into account that mostly all observations made were using un amplified , highly complex big scores and not girl with guitar type music.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Says the guy with the subjective review who considers almost all digital sources to exhibit digititus . . .

To my ears almost all digital sources do exhibit digititus.

 

[bonzo75]

Says the guy with the subjective review who considers almost all digital sources to exhibit digititus... Oh, brother..

So your way of comparing is the right way and his (and others) is wrong?

He never compares. He trusts his ears to pick out through the whole system, talks a lot, drinks beer and rushes out