Zanden 1200 Signature
- Thread starter Marcus
- Start date
I don't think he'd mind if I quote this from him email: the primary differences between the model 1000 and the later 1200 series is the tube circuit design which incorporates fixed bias. Whatever sonic improvements you may achieve by having the "perfect loading" for your cartridge [via SUT] they are almost always outweighed by the sonic improvements of fixed bias. The 1200 series has both a pair of low and high impedance step up transformers. For the vast majority of cartridges any sonic benefit to having your own custom step transformer is minor compared to the benefits of fixed bias.
Just reactivating this post with the question that 'atoing' asked back on 25th July 2023 i.e.;
'I wonder how does it perform in slam and bass compared to the best of the solid states like Boulder, CH Precision etc? Could any users share their thoughts ?'
I am specifically currently interested with anybody who has experience of the Zanden 1200 Signature Phono vs the CH P1 Phono (with an X1) ?
Also interested (distant future planning thinking in next 5+ years!) of pursuing a full Zanden System (i.e. 1200 Signature Phono + 3000 MK2 Pre-Amp + 9600 MK2 Mono Amps) vs a full CH Series 1 System (i.e. P1 & X1 + L1 & X1 + A1.5 or M1.1) for vinyl and a Zanden 2000 Premium CD Transport & 5000 MKIV Signature Signature DAC vs a CH1.5 CD Transport & CHC1.2 DAC (both with an X1) for digital ?
Speaker choice is completely open at the moment as I am currently limited to a small listening of only 4m x 3.5m which in the future (next 5+ years) will hopefully change to a larger room. Hence at the moment listen mainly with my headphone system.
Currently thinking of the Living Voice OBX RW4 if I go the Zanden System route and maybe Diptyque DP 140 MKII if I go the CH Level 1 System route (as I have heard both of these Speakers at various hfi shows over the last 3+ years and liked them very much).
I am thinking aloud here and guessing the Zanden components may be more musical and 'real-life' sounding compared to the CH Level 1 components, with the CH Level 1 System being more flexible with cartridge matching, digital input flexibility and speaker flexibility and matching etc.
For the phono stages, aware that cartridge matching is also important (guessing especially for the Zanden 1200 as the CH P1 is a Swish army knife when it comes to cartridge choosing and matching). My current MSL cartridge Eminent Ex is a nice sounding match with using the current / transimpedance input on the CH P1. If I change my CH P1 for a Zanden 1200 Sig, I would most probably go for a Kuzma CAR 50 (to go with my 4Point 11" arm).
Also guessing (and thinking aloud) that the CH System will run a lot cooler than the Zanden System with tubes (as my current HifiMan EF1000 Hybrid Headphone and Speaker Amp runs very hot with six of 6922 tubes - same type and number as the Zanden 1200 Signature) ! So something for me to consider if I go down the full Zanden System route.
I like the look of the Zanden Classic components and from a visual prospective look more interesting than the CH products. However, the CH products can be stacked on top of each other and (apart from their Amps) are fully sealed from room dust ingress, whereas the Zanden has many slots for the tubes not to overheat the electronics etc. which will for sure allow dust ingress into them.
Plus and minuses for both systems. I guess it will for sure come down to the sound I am hearing. Not so much of an issue with getting to hear the CH Level 1 System as it's still a current product being sold. However, the Zanden will for sure be purchased second hand component by component and therefore maybe not possible to hear a full Zanden System before I buy !
'I wonder how does it perform in slam and bass compared to the best of the solid states like Boulder, CH Precision etc? Could any users share their thoughts ?'
I am specifically currently interested with anybody who has experience of the Zanden 1200 Signature Phono vs the CH P1 Phono (with an X1) ?
Also interested (distant future planning thinking in next 5+ years!) of pursuing a full Zanden System (i.e. 1200 Signature Phono + 3000 MK2 Pre-Amp + 9600 MK2 Mono Amps) vs a full CH Series 1 System (i.e. P1 & X1 + L1 & X1 + A1.5 or M1.1) for vinyl and a Zanden 2000 Premium CD Transport & 5000 MKIV Signature Signature DAC vs a CH1.5 CD Transport & CHC1.2 DAC (both with an X1) for digital ?
Speaker choice is completely open at the moment as I am currently limited to a small listening of only 4m x 3.5m which in the future (next 5+ years) will hopefully change to a larger room. Hence at the moment listen mainly with my headphone system.
Currently thinking of the Living Voice OBX RW4 if I go the Zanden System route and maybe Diptyque DP 140 MKII if I go the CH Level 1 System route (as I have heard both of these Speakers at various hfi shows over the last 3+ years and liked them very much).
I am thinking aloud here and guessing the Zanden components may be more musical and 'real-life' sounding compared to the CH Level 1 components, with the CH Level 1 System being more flexible with cartridge matching, digital input flexibility and speaker flexibility and matching etc.
For the phono stages, aware that cartridge matching is also important (guessing especially for the Zanden 1200 as the CH P1 is a Swish army knife when it comes to cartridge choosing and matching). My current MSL cartridge Eminent Ex is a nice sounding match with using the current / transimpedance input on the CH P1. If I change my CH P1 for a Zanden 1200 Sig, I would most probably go for a Kuzma CAR 50 (to go with my 4Point 11" arm).
Also guessing (and thinking aloud) that the CH System will run a lot cooler than the Zanden System with tubes (as my current HifiMan EF1000 Hybrid Headphone and Speaker Amp runs very hot with six of 6922 tubes - same type and number as the Zanden 1200 Signature) ! So something for me to consider if I go down the full Zanden System route.
I like the look of the Zanden Classic components and from a visual prospective look more interesting than the CH products. However, the CH products can be stacked on top of each other and (apart from their Amps) are fully sealed from room dust ingress, whereas the Zanden has many slots for the tubes not to overheat the electronics etc. which will for sure allow dust ingress into them.
Plus and minuses for both systems. I guess it will for sure come down to the sound I am hearing. Not so much of an issue with getting to hear the CH Level 1 System as it's still a current product being sold. However, the Zanden will for sure be purchased second hand component by component and therefore maybe not possible to hear a full Zanden System before I buy !
no
For me, I have not been particularly tempted to look at the latest digital in all these years, having heard all the way thru the Vivaldi Apex generation of digital. It does not mean I find that they are inferior nor even that they do not excel in certain areas over the Zanden, BUT providing you consider the following key points below, I have found the Zanden digital excels at presenting an extraordinarily balanced musical presentation so that it becomes a 'simply sit back and enjoy' and get off the merry go round kind of experience.
1. The Zanden is renowned for its sense of 'life' in its music, very natural, very organic.
2. Where it benefits from some meaningful tweaks/upgrades:
Bass:
- With Mullard NOS Tubes, you will find that the bass power of the Zanden takes a big leap forward...to where it went toe to toe with Esoteric reference SACD player, ARC and a few other reference players vintage 2014
- Upgrade power cables (I have used PAD Ferox to very very good effect with the DAC but you can also use Siltech Triple Crown or Sablon Audio Prince. I used Sablon Prince on Transport and Z:Axis Audio SL777 on DAC)
Solidity of Image/Density of Sound:
- Isolation using HRS and Stillpoints+HRS Nimbus (you must combine these) really create powerful, denser notes which is important; the SRA Isolation also works well on the DAC (in which case you must use this ALONE without the HRS/Stillpoints)
Detail:
- Use the Waversa EXT INT Ref inbetween the Transport and DAC...it appears to do something with the EMI/RFI of the i2s digital cable and really really cleans up the signal, again creating much more detail and much greater density of note
- Use the Z:Axis i2s cable in lieu of the Zanden stock cable (shockingly greater increase in detail retrieval again)
- Both of these do NOT change the beautiful tonality and natural sense of the Zanden whatsoever
- Powercables also helped here
For me having made these minor upgrades/tweaks, the sound is 100% Zanden pure...and yet thoroughly modern in detail retrieval, bass power and solidity, density of image. Those in the industry who have heard the digital were quite shocked by how much more dense, solid the sound was without change to the natural, tonal qualities of the Zanden signature
And thus, for me, while I remain super-interested in reading about the CH C10, MSB Latest, DCS Varese, Wadax Studio Player and Reference...particularly at the prices, I have no particular burning desire to audition let alone seriously contemplate acquire.
Fascinating options! I will speak only to the Zanden side of this equation since I have owned the Zanden digital for 17 consecutive years and the complete, latest spec 4-box (ie, including the Transport) for 15 of those consecutive years.
For me, I have not been particularly tempted to look at the latest digital in all these years, having heard all the way thru the Vivaldi Apex generation of digital. It does not mean I find that they are inferior nor even that they do not excel in certain areas over the Zanden, BUT providing you consider the following key points below, I have found the Zanden digital excels at presenting an extraordinarily balanced musical presentation so that it becomes a 'simply sit back and enjoy' and get off the merry go round kind of experience.
1. The Zanden is renowned for its sense of 'life' in its music, very natural, very organic.
2. Where it benefits from some meaningful tweaks/upgrades:
Bass:
- With Mullard NOS Tubes, you will find that the bass power of the Zanden takes a big leap forward...to where it went toe to toe with Esoteric reference SACD player, ARC and a few other reference players vintage 2014
- Upgrade power cables (I have used PAD Ferox to very very good effect with the DAC but you can also use Siltech Triple Crown or Sablon Audio Prince. I used Sablon Prince on Transport and Z:Axis Audio SL777 on DAC)
Solidity of Image/Density of Sound:
- Isolation using HRS and Stillpoints+HRS Nimbus (you must combine these) really create powerful, denser notes which is important; the SRA Isolation also works well on the DAC (in which case you must use this ALONE without the HRS/Stillpoints)
Detail:
- Use the Waversa EXT INT Ref inbetween the Transport and DAC...it appears to do something with the EMI/RFI of the i2s digital cable and really really cleans up the signal, again creating much more detail and much greater density of note
- Use the Z:Axis i2s cable in lieu of the Zanden stock cable (shockingly greater increase in detail retrieval again)
- Both of these do NOT change the beautiful tonality and natural sense of the Zanden whatsoever
- Powercables also helped here
For me having made these minor upgrades/tweaks, the sound is 100% Zanden pure...and yet thoroughly modern in detail retrieval, bass power and solidity, density of image. Those in the industry who have heard the digital were quite shocked by how much more dense, solid the sound was without change to the natural, tonal qualities of the Zanden signature
And thus, for me, while I remain super-interested in reading about the CH C10, MSB Latest, DCS Varese, Wadax Studio Player and Reference...particularly at the prices, I have no particular burning desire to audition let alone seriously contemplate acquire.
Wow, they are two totally opposite sounds. If you like the Zanden sound I could not see you liking the CH at all. One sounds precise and a touch lit up on top and the other musical and maybe a touch softer on top.
That is super helpful to know...I have never heard the CH digital before. So good to know. And yes, I would agree on your observation about the Zanden top end treble...depending on your tube you 'can' get greater or lesser illumination...but it will in my experience tend to be more soft on top. The one exception is if you use Siemens 7308 (which Audio Exotics did when they were showcasing the Zanden) where I did find it quite well lit at the top...and interestingly, I preferred using Mullard 7308 or Amperex US PQ White Label 7308 rather than Siemens.
I have a couple of friends who have the Zanden 1200 Signature and I can assure you that it works very well with the various heads, My Sonic Lab and equally well with the Koetsu heads and wonderfully well with the Etsuro gold and bordeaux, I also heard it with the Ortomonimo and it left me amazed with the EMT JSD 6 platinum
BTW, nice system! Big fan of Rockports and have heard the Altair 2s...and like very much that you have dual DD Velodyne subs with them as well which I also would have done. (using DD18+ now). And very much like the Colosseum having owned the Stereo before going to Mephisto Stereo. Most every Gryphon owner I know has always found their Monos are a profound difference/improvement to the stereos, despite how good the stereos are. Your Colosseum Monos should thus be quite special.
Thank you 'LL21' for your information and experience with the Zanden Digital. Very much appreciated.
Thank you 'Massimo66' for your information regarding the Zanden 1200 Signature. Very much appreciated.
Thank you 'Jeffy' for your post. Much appreciated.
Yes I am thinking (aloud) along the same lines !
Nice! Dual Velodyne DD15 subs with your Altair 2s! How do you like the AVAAs? What difference/improvement did you find with them?
It is fantastic, the bass is much tighter, quicker and the overall sound is much more transparent.
Good to know! Do you place them in null areas or in a specific place relative to the main speakers or subs? Intriguing.
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