YG introduces the InVincible, 21" all-aluminum 6000W sub!

[Elliot G.]

If you look at all of YG Acoustics's designs, I don't see much of anything straying from the target of a niche within an already small niche. I would give credit for a more unique solution than we often see in such solutions. Of course I'm always amused when I hear behind the scenes that some show favorites sometimes sell less than a handful of units, while I've been shocked at quantities of other products with what might at first blush seem like brazen pricing. Of course once you get into the realm of such exotic material, manufacturing, and methods, little details do very quickly ratchet up the cost. While of course you have to stop somewhere, the higher the price climbs the more it makes sense to pull out all the stops. The question comes back to balance in valuing the craftsmanship, design, and artistic details vs the acoustic performance.

I have no issue with anyone making whatever they want. I did hear this system in Munich and I think they did a great job in the same room that was not great the year before. My point is there is an extremely small market for a product like this. I wish them the best success with it an just as a point the company I import makes amazing very high priced subs and I did not bring them into the US. The reason is simple I don't believe its a good financial choice. Thats it!

 

[asiufy]

We're finally having our event with the YG InVincible !

Details here..


https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...ver-heard-a-21-subwoofer-how-about-two.29334/

 

[asiufy]

Kinda big

 

[Bodhi]

Dat's big

 

[LL21]

Yikes...it really is. When you see it in context...alongside equipment you've seen a lot, those paper dimensions really come to life. B-I-G. Particularly if you are thinking of 'just tucking it in the corner for some extra bass'.

 

[dbeau]

Yikes...it really is. When you see it in context...alongside equipment you've seen a lot, those paper dimensions really come to life. B-I-G. Particularly if you are thinking of 'just tucking it in the corner for some extra bass'.

Well I see only one! Was thinking about a 'swarm' install but maybe should run it by wife first before putting mortgage on home :0

 

[asiufy]

Well, you can absolutely do that
The bottom can be ordered with the drivers facing down as well, like this... So just spread 4 of those round the room and voilà!

 

[KeithR]

Kinda big

what's funny is how big it looks in your room, which is humongous to start out with

 

[sbo6]

Of course once you get into the realm of such exotic material, manufacturing, and methods, little details do very quickly ratchet up the cost. While of course you have to stop somewhere, the higher the price climbs the more it makes sense to pull out all the stops. The question comes back to balance in valuing the craftsmanship, design, and artistic details vs the acoustic performance.

Your last 2 sentences are a bit contradictory bit I do think both are true.

Net for me WRT this subwoofer is - for the extravagant billet aluminum machining and double - layer cabinet (+ other high man / machine hour processes = high $$), does this translate to meaningful frequency range with uber - low distortion? If not, it's mostly an exercise in extreme material machining and aesthetics / $$ bragging rights.

 

[Ron Resnick]

And the Wilson Benesch IGx and the Pure Low and the REL Six Pack are serious competitors.

(And I don't understand the design of having those mighty 21 inchers mostly pointing at each other.)

 

[sbo6]

And the Wilson Benesch IGx and the Pure Low and the REL Six Pack are serious competitors.

(And I don't understand the design of having those mighty 21 inchers mostly pointing at each other.)

FWIW, I've done a bit of research as I want to move beyond my 4 JL Audio Reference - class Fathom subs. Rel, JL Audio and most other cones in an MDF box (or MDF - like box) fall into the same category and can be very good, or not IME.

Then there are the more exotic / extreme cones in a box such as Wilson Benesch, YG, Magico, etc. that I'm sure are a half step - a step above the aforementioned wood box subs.

Out of both categories and subs above (and almost all other subs including the Pre Low you mentioned), the one design area that always concerned me was - nothing is done to manage the driver's rear output which causes smearing. Vivid Audio mitigates most effectively, btw. Other than OB which have their own challenges (e.g.: lack of efficiency), I know of only two companies that "manage" the driver's back wave and its associated distortion - M&K and Perlisten. However. Perlisten is like M&K on steroids in terms of cabinet and driver engineering and construction and microprocessor capability. In a push - pull configuration, even order harmonic distortions are greatly reduced. That, coupled with intelligence that manages driver output to ensure uber - low distortion makes for one of the very best subwoofers Audioholics has ever measured and reviewed.

Net is - After significant time hearing and researching subwoofers and having now heard the top reference Perlisten sub, the S215S, I bought one, excited to get it set up in the next few days.

 

[Ron Resnick]

FWIW, I've done a bit of research as I want to move beyond my 4 JL Audio Reference - class Fathom subs. Rel, JL Audio and most other cones in an MDF box (or MDF - like box) fall into the same category and can be very good, or not IME.

Then there are the more exotic / extreme cones in a box such as Wilson Benesch, YG, Magico, etc. that I'm sure are a half step - a step above the aforementioned wood box subs.

Out of both categories and subs above (and almost all other subs including the Pre Low you mentioned), the one design area that always concerned me was - nothing is done to manage the driver's rear output which causes smearing. Vivid Audio mitigates most effectively, btw. Other than OB which have their own challenges (e.g.: lack of efficiency), I know of only two companies that "manage" the driver's back wave and its associated distortion - M&K and Perlisten. However. Perlisten is like M&K on steroids in terms of cabinet and driver engineering and construction and microprocessor capability. In a push - pull configuration, even order harmonic distortions are greatly reduced. That, coupled with intelligence that manages driver output to ensure uber - low distortion makes for one of the very best subwoofers Audioholics has ever measured and reviewed.

Net is - After significant time hearing and researching subwoofers and having now heard the top reference Perlisten sub, the S215S, I bought one, excited to get it set up in the next few days.

Congratulations! Please report to us!

 

[LL21]

FWIW, I've done a bit of research as I want to move beyond my 4 JL Audio Reference - class Fathom subs. Rel, JL Audio and most other cones in an MDF box (or MDF - like box) fall into the same category and can be very good, or not IME.

Then there are the more exotic / extreme cones in a box such as Wilson Benesch, YG, Magico, etc. that I'm sure are a half step - a step above the aforementioned wood box subs.

Out of both categories and subs above (and almost all other subs including the Pre Low you mentioned), the one design area that always concerned me was - nothing is done to manage the driver's rear output which causes smearing. Vivid Audio mitigates most effectively, btw. Other than OB which have their own challenges (e.g.: lack of efficiency), I know of only two companies that "manage" the driver's back wave and its associated distortion - M&K and Perlisten. However. Perlisten is like M&K on steroids in terms of cabinet and driver engineering and construction and microprocessor capability. In a push - pull configuration, even order harmonic distortions are greatly reduced. That, coupled with intelligence that manages driver output to ensure uber - low distortion makes for one of the very best subwoofers Audioholics has ever measured and reviewed.

Net is - After significant time hearing and researching subwoofers and having now heard the top reference Perlisten sub, the S215S, I bought one, excited to get it set up in the next few days.

I have read up on the Audioholics website about the Perlisten D215 measurements...which are not only extraordinary...I believe Audioholics declare them the best they have ever measured in a sealed sub...and in fact, it looks like pretty much still the best they have ever measured in almost any category class across the board.

I have also compared them (like for like...open field, 2.0 meter distance) to the Funk Audio 18.2 (which Audioholics also measured), and Perlisten come out on top.

So that puts them up at the top of my interest list. And NOW, I see they announced the Perlisten 8is which is 8 x 8" cones in a very svelte vertical stack (push-pull to again reduce distortion).

I am most intrigued! Does the Perlisten cut off the main speakers as well...or do its adjustments primarily relate to itself? I have always thought if we go with a new sub/dual subs...it would be with Wilson Crossover to experiment with what happens if we cut off the XLFs below 32hz-38hz to free up headroom within the main speakers...and leave that low bass territory to the subs.

 

[sbo6]

I have read up on the Audioholics website about the Perlisten D215 measurements...which are not only extraordinary...I believe Audioholics declare them the best they have ever measured in a sealed sub...and in fact, it looks like pretty much still the best they have ever measured in almost any category class across the board.

I have also compared them (like for like...open field, 2.0 meter distance) to the Funk Audio 18.2 (which Audioholics also measured), and Perlisten come out on top.

So that puts them up at the top of my interest list. And NOW, I see they announced the Perlisten 8is which is 8 x 8" cones in a very svelte vertical stack (push-pull to again reduce distortion).

I am most intrigued! Does the Perlisten cut off the main speakers as well...or do its adjustments primarily relate to itself? I have always thought if we go with a new sub/dual subs...it would be with Wilson Crossover to experiment with what happens if we cut off the XLFs below 32hz-38hz to free up headroom within the main speakers...and leave that low bass territory to the subs.

Your thoughts WRT the Wilson XO are exactly as mine. I'm hoping to roll off my Vivids at ~50Hz where they'd cover about 2 octaves and the bottom 1 1/2 octave covered by multiple Perlisten D series subs. This, I hope will work well as I have a ~60Hz and ~30Hz room mode that I hope to best ameliorate via Perlisten's 10 band DEQ + the multitude of other adjustments, much more than my JL Audios. Plus give my amps a reduction in frequency coverage workload via a true 5 - way design.

 

[LL21]

Your thoughts WRT the Wilson XO are exactly as mine. I'm hoping to roll off my Vivids at ~50Hz where they'd cover about 2 octaves and the bottom 1 1/2 octave covered by multiple Perlisten D series subs. This, I hope will work well as I have a ~60Hz and ~30Hz room mode that I hope to ameliorate via Perlisten's 10 band DEQ + the multitude of other adjustments much more than my JL Audios. Plus give my amps a reduction in frequency coverage workload via a true 5 - way design.

Fantastic...look forward to hearing how it goes!

 

[LL21]

Your thoughts WRT the Wilson XO are exactly as mine. I'm hoping to roll off my Vivids at ~50Hz where they'd cover about 2 octaves and the bottom 1 1/2 octave covered by multiple Perlisten D series subs. This, I hope will work well as I have a ~60Hz and ~30Hz room mode that I hope to best ameliorate via Perlisten's 10 band DEQ + the multitude of other adjustments, much more than my JL Audios. Plus give my amps a reduction in frequency coverage workload via a true 5 - way design.

Hi sb06. I thought to check in with you on your Perlisten experience so far. Would really appreciate any listening notes on your experience so far.

Particularly:
- whether you ended up crossing over as high as 50hz
- whether you cut off the Vivids below 50hz or ran them either lower (ie, 40hz) or full range
- how high you are happy to run the Perlisten and whether you heard the sub any higher than where you stopped
- And of course, what have been the effects on your overall sound with and without the Perlistens in?

Look forward to hearing about it if/when you can!

 

[LL21]

Hi sb06. I thought to check in with you on your Perlisten experience so far. Would really appreciate any listening notes on your experience so far.

Particularly:
- whether you ended up crossing over as high as 50hz
- whether you cut off the Vivids below 50hz or ran them either lower (ie, 40hz) or full range
- how high you are happy to run the Perlisten and whether you heard the sub any higher than where you stopped
- And of course, what have been the effects on your overall sound with and without the Perlistens in?

Look forward to hearing about it if/when you can!

Scratch that...found the thread where you did this!

 

[sbo6]

Hi sb06. I thought to check in with you on your Perlisten experience so far. Would really appreciate any listening notes on your experience so far.

Particularly:
- whether you ended up crossing over as high as 50hz
- whether you cut off the Vivids below 50hz or ran them either lower (ie, 40hz) or full range
- how high you are happy to run the Perlisten and whether you heard the sub any higher than where you stopped
- And of course, what have been the effects on your overall sound with and without the Perlistens in?

Look forward to hearing about it if/when you can!

Hi!

Before I bought the Mephisto, I was very happy with the ActiveXO crossed over at ~50Hz letting the Perlistens cover the bottom 1.5 octaves and giving the Spirits' woofers and the Audionet amps a break from the low impedance and higher current they demand. I really liked the integration, completely seamless and it reduced the effects of some nasty LF room modes I had. To directly answer your questions:

- whether you ended up crossing over as high as 50hz - 52Hz at 24DB / octave slope
- whether you cut off the Vivids below 50hz or ran them either lower (ie, 40hz) or full range - cut off at 50Hz 18DB / octave (highest possible with this XO)
- how high you are happy to run the Perlisten and whether you heard the sub any higher than where you stopped - I experimented with the Perlistens as high as 70Hz and heard no degradation of sonics, they are the first subs I've owned where you can increase the bass frequency and / or amplitude and it simply plays louder and a larger range - there's no quality loss. The distortion is vanishingly low.
- And of course, what have been the effects on your overall sound with and without the Perlistens in? - once dialed in, there was a larger soundstage both vertically and horizontally along with an increased clarity in the bass, mid - bass and midrange. There was also a better tonality to instruments, IMO well worth the upgrade.

About a month ago I went ahead and purchased a Gryphon Mephisto amp and it kind of threw a wrench in the external crossover efforts. Because the Mephisto accepts balanced only I needed to procure different ICs and when I inserted the Mephisto (with cheaper XLRs), it seemed like there were a slight loss of clarity when the Wilson Active XO was in the chain. As such, I removed it and need to experiment as I have since bought better balanced ICs commensurate to the single ended cables used with the Audionet. With the Mephisto, so much is different sound wise that it's hard to compare, but I feel that there is still some performance left if I can get the ActiveXO back in the chain with the new and better ICs. Either way, with the Mephisto and the Perlistens, what I realized is that my system now truly sounds like it needs to be in a bigger room. The sense of scale is amazing along with the more realistic instruments' tonality.


I hope this long thread helps answer your questions, somewhat.



Steve

 

[Ron Resnick]

It looks like the Perlistens do not accept a high-level (speaker level) input. Is this correct?

PS: As far as I can tell only REL and Wilson Benesch accept a high level input.

 

[LL21]

Hi!

However, before I bought the Mephisto, I was very happy with the ActiveXO crossed over at ~50Hz letting the Perlistens cover the bottom 1.5 octaves and giving the Spirits' subs and the Audionet amps a break from the low impedance and higher current they demand. I really liked the integration, completely seamless and it reduced the effects of some nasty LF room modes I had. To directly answer your questions:

- whether you ended up crossing over as high as 50hz - 52Hz at 24DB / octave slope
- whether you cut off the Vivids below 50hz or ran them either lower (ie, 40hz) or full range - cut off at 50Hz 18DB / octave (highest possible with this XO)
- how high you are happy to run the Perlisten and whether you heard the sub any higher than where you stopped - I experimented with the Perlistens as high as 70Hz and heard no degradation of sonics, they are the first sub I've owned where you can increase the bass frequency and / or amplitude and it simply plays louder and a larger range - there's no quality loss. The distortion is vanishingly low.
- And of course, what have been the effects on your overall sound with and without the Perlistens in? - once dialed in, there was a larger soundstage both vertically and horizontally along with an increased clarity in the bass, mid - bass and midrange. There was also a better tonality to instruments, IMO well worth the upgrade.

About a month ago I went ahead and purchased a Gryphon Mephisto amp and it kind of threw a wrench in the external crossover efforts. Because the Mephisto accepts balanced only I needed to procure different ICs and when I inserted the Mephisto (with cheaper XLRs), it seemed like there were a slight loss of clarity when the Wilson Active XO was in the chain. As such, I removed it and need to experiment as I have since bought better balanced ICs commensurate to the single ended cables used with the Audionet. With the Mephisto, so much is different sound wise that it's hard to compare, but I feel that there is still some performance left if I can get the ActiveXO back in the chain with the new and better ICs. Either way, with the Mephisto and the Perlistens, what I realized is that my system now truly sounds like it needs to be in a bigger room. The sense of scale is amazing along with the more realistic instruments' tonality.


I hope this long thread helps and your questions, somewhat.



Steve

wow! It sure does! Thank you. And if I may offer to reciprocate, as an owner of 3 Gryphon amps over the years...Antileon, Colosseum and eventually the Mephisto...some thoughts on what I suspect you are finding now.

The Mephisto is probably one of my all-time favorite amps. It has endless muscle, detail, low noise floor and a sense of depth in tone that I genuinely enjoyed luxuriating in the sense of full foundation music.

Over the 12 years of owning CJ preamps with Gryphon amps, I found myself in an unexpected move to the Robert Koda K15EX...which after such extraordinary success, ended up in another opportunity to move to 'another' pure Class A SS beasts...235 Watts Pure Class A into 4ohms...which was the Robert Koda K160s.

So I have done the before and after with the Mephisto. And understanding its sound character really crystallized AFTER putting the Robert Koda K160s in. There was a surprising upheaval in the sound balance of the system as soon as the Mephisto was swapped out for the Robert Koda K160 amps.

After (no kidding) 6-9 months of listening for hundreds of hours and moving the big Wilsons around, I came to a belief that the Mephisto to my ear has a definite touch of mid-bass heft...a welcome thing for me...i always enjoyed that the foundation it gives to ALL music no matter what album. Particularly memorable, it gave piano solo that rooted-in-the-room all-around-you feel. BUT in light of your desire to recalibrate the Perlistens, Crossover, Main speakers...this element of balance is going to be something that will possibly do 1 of 2 things:

- obligate you to recalibrate that mid-bass heft in order to keep the whole system ruler flat both measurement and perception-wise
- or just say...heck I love this sound...leave everything! I listen to music instruments not measurement instruments! (I suspect the latter in your case, but i also respect you are very adept at measuring)

BTW, this is my two cents not knowing the Audionets you used to use...but surmising based on my own experience and on what I have read about your prior amps. In our case, we went the opposite way...from mid-bass heft to very very purist evenness across the spectrum...so by updating the Wilson speakers a touch, everything snapped back beautifully into place.

Thank you again for taking the time on the Perlistens...definitely a shortlist for us here on our next move which has been firmly in the bass area for a long, long time now.