When do you stop upgrading?

[Lagonda]

Lately every new tweak and "upgrade" has had a negative net effect on the sound I end up switching back to previous positions and equipment. It is probably a good thing, as i have never been so easily engaged by my system before, even on days where i am not that motivate, i end up singing along and dancing a little Jig behind the listening seat. And maybe i just need to have my medication dosage reassessed !

 

[bonzo75]

Lately every new tweak and "upgrade" has had a negative net effect on the sound I end up switching back to previous positions and equipment. It is probably a good thing, as i have never been so easily engaged by my system before, even on days where i am not that motivate, i end up singing along and dancing a little Jig behind the listening seat. And maybe i just need to have my medication dosage reassessed !

Video of you singing and dancing?

 

[Kingrex]

I don't think tube rolling and cartridge swapping is the same as changing amps, speakers, DAC etc.

I believe it is necessary to try a few tubes and find what sings in your system. I go through a few variations of tube with any component I get. Once I find the sweet spot I usually purchase a few sets as backup.

What is hard about reaching audio satisfaction is all systems sound so different. As you travel and listen to other systems, you learn the capabilities of your own equipment. You understand better what it can and can not do. And too often someone else has something that exceeds what you have.

 

[Al M.]

I don't think tube rolling and cartridge swapping is the same as changing amps, speakers, DAC etc.

I believe it is necessary to try a few tubes and find what sings in your system. I go through a few variations of tube with any component I get. Once I find the sweet spot I usually purchase a few sets as backup.

Not if the manufacturer designed and voiced the preamp or amp with the tubes that come with it.

I have found that my pream/amp combo is very well balanced. Sound imbalances or problems that I heard in my system could very well be addressed by paying attention to other things in the system and speaker/room interactions.

I cannot evade the feeling that tube preferences resulting from tube rolling often, though not necessarily always, are arrived at because they mask problems in the system, rather than because they solve them.

 

[Khorn]

Just basically bought two systems recently and I’m extremely satisfied. My systems are based on Streaming due to limiting physical disability.
The only thing I’m missing is a CD/Sacd player as I have a decent CD and sacd collection with nothing to play them on. I guess it also depends on how much advancement is made in streaming front ends over the next while.

 

[Kingrex]

Not if the manufacturer designed and voiced the preamp or amp with the tubes that come with it.

I have found that my pream/amp combo is very well balanced. Sound imbalances or problems that I heard in my system could very well be addressed by paying attention to other things in the system and speaker/room interactions.

I cannot evade the feeling that tube preferences resulting from tube rolling often, though not necessarily always, are arrived at because they mask problems in the system, rather than because they solve them.

That is a good point about problems and how to address them.

About tubes. It is my belief manufacturer base their tube choice off a reliable stock. Stock tubes provide a known foundation baseline.

Amps and speakers are a matched set. A tube swap is an excellent way to make small adjustments to optimize the interaction between the two.

 

[andromedaaudio]

After i have bought this lol thats a sweety , unfortunately no original stand i think

Studer C37 60's | Reverb

Here we have a classic Studer C37 stereo recorder up for sale.Made in the 1960's in Switzerland.The best 1/4" 2 track machine ever built!Abbey Road had these in the mastering rooms, and it uses the same Rec and playback amps as the legendary Studer J37.I looked thru the machine and it's in great ...

reverb.com

 

[spiritofmusic]

Video of you singing and dancing?

I usually claim like Al M that I can't rely on videos, but even I know a video of Lagonda jigging can only be bad.

 

[marty]

I won't. I don't have endless money to switch gears therefore better not start, don't won't to be stuck like you with a compromised one

Huh? You don't tube roll??
Weren't you one of the first guys that got everyone started rolling KR 242s in their Lampi's ?

 

[marty]

BTW, tube rolling is something everyone can afford to do. Rolling monster amps is something only stupid audiophiles do. I should know.

 

[bonzo75]

Huh? You don't tube roll??
Weren't you one of the first guys that got everyone started rolling KR 242s in their Lampi's ?

I tube roll a lot, both in Lampi and amps and phono, and try the effect in different systems. I was just bantering with Peter. The whole conversation started with Peter confidently stating that he had decided he won't tube roll. Without having ever done so. All posts after that are just noise, with people trying to out Post.

 

[bonzo75]

Not if the manufacturer designed and voiced the preamp or amp with the tubes that come with it.

I have found that my pream/amp combo is very well balanced. Sound imbalances or problems that I heard in my system could very well be addressed by paying attention to other things in the system and speaker/room interactions.

I cannot evade the feeling that tube preferences resulting from tube rolling often, though not necessarily always, are arrived at because they mask problems in the system, rather than because they solve them.

Sorry, but you learned this from changing tubes in octave? That is like changing earphones for your laptop and claiming experience in changing high end speakers.

Tubes are 45, 46, 2a3, 242, 300b, 211, 845, 801/10, PX25, and many, many others at least among those who roll tubes for the last many decades. If manufacturers started using the good ones, they would become unavailable and are many times already unaffordable

For easy reference, here is a like a list of 100 odd tubes and their variants in the margin in the left. Let me know when you tube roll from the list. Quite a few choices

VinylSavor

This is Thomas Mayer's blog about vacuum tube audio, to share updates about new amplifiers and preamplifiers and ELROG vacuum tubes.

vinylsavor.blogspot.com

 

[Solypsa]

Maybe its a bit like exercise. You keep at it and keep growing...then at some point you plateau. So you take a break. Return with more vigor or maybe a different approach.

Those that insist on linear and constant growth fall prey to expectation bias and ever increasing costs.

Those in tune to their enjoyment may take a more curvy path.

And yes manufacturers are not likely to 'design and voice' their gear around rare nos tubes for obvious reasons. Doesn't mean those nos tubes will rock your world in any way but also means 'these are the tubes the manufacturer uses' has meaning but limited scope...

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe its a bit like exercise. You keep at it and keep growing...then at some point you plateau. So you take a break. Return with more vigor or maybe a different approach.

Those that insist on linear and constant growth fall prey to expectation bias and ever increasing costs.

Those in tune to their enjoyment may take a more curvy path.

And yes manufacturers are not likely to 'design and voice' their gear around rare nos tubes for obvious reasons. Doesn't mean those nos tubes will rock your world in any way but also means 'these are the tubes the manufacturer uses' has meaning but limited scope...

Forget NOS tubes, they will also not use the best of current tubes.

 

[Al M.]

Forget NOS tubes, they will also not use the best of current tubes.

So now you're an expert in tube amp design? Interesting, to say the least.

 

[bonzo75]

So now you're an expert in tube amp design? Interesting, to say the least.

This has nothing to with design, but cost. Lol

 

[marty]

I have a famous tube amp called Lamm which uses rather unknown Russian tubes. It bars tube rolling which I am not interested in at all.

Owning a Lamm does not bar tube rolling, but as far as i can tell, it is generally not done because Vladimir has very specific preferences for his tubes which contribute to the sound he wants his gear to produce. I've owned several pieces of Lamm gear, and have never found the sound to be bettered from stock tubes. This is particularly true for output tubes although some folks have swapped input tubes successfully on some gear (i.e., Tele ECC83 inputs on ML-3)

 

[bonzo75]

Owning a Lamm does not bar tube rolling, but as far as i can tell, it is generally not done because Vladimir has very specific preferences for his tubes which contribute to the sound he wants his gear to produce. I've owned several pieces of Lamm gear, and have never found the sound to be bettered from stock tubes. This is particularly true for output tubes although some folks have swapped input tubes successfully on some gear (i.e., Tele ECC83 inputs on ML-3)

You will have different conclusions on the lamm m2.2 thread

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/lamm-m2-2.18986/page-4#post-357867

lamm m2.2

Congratulations on your full conversion to the dark side. I've heard your speakers many times and I find them very accurate. Using Lamm electronics on the TAD's has to bring unbelievable romance and musicality.

www.whatsbestforum.com

lamm m2.2

finally , im' LAMMED...... as in the silence of the lamms..... received a pair of m2.2s and the new l2.1 preamp to drive the TAD REF1S...... less the 24 hours of burn in , and this folks, is a match made in heaven..... now i'm considering adding the LL1.1 and 2 m1.2 to biamp the TADS...

www.whatsbestforum.com

lamm m2.2

The piano is so dynamic colourful and the string resonances so real especially the bass notes The power of the M2.2 no clipping The combo of lamm and morel is very convincing My guess is big Wilson would also be good :) Lamm and the big Wilson speakers is a match made in heaven IMHO

www.whatsbestforum.com

Anyway, the point is, people who comment they have decided to not tube roll should at least tube roll to understand why not. Otherwise it is not a decision. It is status quo of not much tube exposure.

 

[PeterA]

Owning a Lamm does not bar tube rolling, but as far as i can tell, it is generally not done because Vladimir has very specific preferences for his tubes which contribute to the sound he wants his gear to produce. I've owned several pieces of Lamm gear, and have never found the sound to be bettered from stock tubes. This is particularly true for output tubes although some folks have swapped input tubes successfully on some gear (i.e., Tele ECC83 inputs on ML-3)

Hi Marty, I was simply playing a game of words with Thomask who said he would never consider Lamm because he thinks it bars tube rolling. I know one can experiment with tube rolling, I just am not that interested. Your experience with Lamm seems to match what others have written or told me. As Bonzo correctly pointed out, I am new to this whole tube thing and am proceeding slowly. At the moment, I just love the sound.

 

[andromedaaudio]

In the case of Lamm / CAT etc , you d best leave it up to the designers of the amps and follow their advice .
They actually know what they are doing