What turntables do you use? Pictures would be nice as well :-)
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Kuzma Stabi M/4 Point and a Garrard 301/Schick plinth and arms...
my big and heavy ( 50kg solid steel platter and ceramic bearing) blue giant turntable , perfectly with SME 3012R tonearm,
I love the structured sound and the deep bass lines, my preferred turntable at the moment, specially with Dereneville or J Sikora motor.
unfortunately no Brand for the manufacturer. It started as a project (like the DDK AS project) for a group of vinyl enthusiasts,
15 were built to high manufacturing standards. Platter, Bearing and Tonearmstand are still outstanding , but current times have developed better drives,
so I exchanged the Motor (to J Sikora or Dereneville, not yet fully sure)
15 were built to high manufacturing standards. Platter, Bearing and Tonearmstand are still outstanding , but current times have developed better drives,
so I exchanged the Motor (to J Sikora or Dereneville, not yet fully sure)
What kind of motors use these systems? Is Derenville the same manufacturer who presented a 650 keuro turnable a few years ago?
It is the same person, according to the site their drive is based on a Papst dc motor.
david
Then they are probably using these 3 phase synchronous motors - surely discarding the Papst electronics or ordering just the 3 phase motor.
https://idt.ebmpapst.com/de/en/idt/products/motors/brushless-external-rotor-motors.html and
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/212472-belt-driven-synchronous-motor-vs-dc-motor-record-players.html#post3019641
For some time I kept an eye on eBay.de looking for a cheap surplus one just to look for this possibility.
As I like turntables like:
- Envogue Quasar
- Symphonic Line RG 6
- Horning Sati
- Da Vinci Audio Gabriel
as this turntables reduce the Design to the pure functional parts. This players were mostly constructed in the 80's or 90's ,
that's why some of them are in fancy colours, like my blue giant...
The most of them retail in good used conditions for 10.000,- to 15.000,- eur, some of them are complete with a good tonearm, some of them are still in production.
I found one more of the blue giant player, with a huge motor and an EMT? Tonearm, but no current sales offer.
The Dereneville Motor is described here:
http://www.avdesignhaus.de/AnalogZubehoer-Node_15748.html
The DC controller is always integrated, DC PSU is a better quality wall plug.
The J Sikora Motor is using the Pabst DC Motor as well.
http://www.jsikora.pl/en/index.html
J Sikora sells the motor in different versions (height of motor chassis, material of motor chassis and pulley),
The motor Controller is separate, an external DC PSU is supplied.
Price is very similar, no big sound difference between the two.
- Envogue Quasar
- Symphonic Line RG 6
- Horning Sati
- Da Vinci Audio Gabriel
as this turntables reduce the Design to the pure functional parts. This players were mostly constructed in the 80's or 90's ,
that's why some of them are in fancy colours, like my blue giant...
The most of them retail in good used conditions for 10.000,- to 15.000,- eur, some of them are complete with a good tonearm, some of them are still in production.
I found one more of the blue giant player, with a huge motor and an EMT? Tonearm, but no current sales offer.
The Dereneville Motor is described here:
http://www.avdesignhaus.de/AnalogZubehoer-Node_15748.html
The DC controller is always integrated, DC PSU is a better quality wall plug.
The J Sikora Motor is using the Pabst DC Motor as well.
http://www.jsikora.pl/en/index.html
J Sikora sells the motor in different versions (height of motor chassis, material of motor chassis and pulley),
The motor Controller is separate, an external DC PSU is supplied.
Price is very similar, no big sound difference between the two.
This one is for sale at Springair: https://www.springair.de/en/en-vogue-quasar-mit-kuzma-reference-und-tisch/h59257
I bought it with the risk, that the Turntable does not perform at all, as the player was new to me. And, to be honest, not as a surprise, the original motor was a little outdated, but the remaining parts do perform as a "best in class" turntable. Otherwise it would have been just a too expensive SME 3012R deal...
The better Motor will cost around 4000,- eur , which has to be added to the purchase cost. but than this motor will be "best in class" as well.
If you buy one of the others on the pictures, specially Envogue or Rolf Gemein, you should think about a better Motor as well.
J Sikora is using up to 4 motors, I am more a friend of one single motor. So I have to find out, what I prefer.
For my Micro Seiki RX 5000 I am using the Sperling Motor.
http://sperling-audio.de/portfolio/motor-housing-power-supplies/?lang=en
I will get a second Sperling Motor next week and I will find out than.
(for the Blue Giant the Sperling motor has not enough power (in my opinion),
I do prefer the others, but Sperling is much cheaper, like 2000,- for a set up with 2 motors)
The better Motor will cost around 4000,- eur , which has to be added to the purchase cost. but than this motor will be "best in class" as well.
If you buy one of the others on the pictures, specially Envogue or Rolf Gemein, you should think about a better Motor as well.
J Sikora is using up to 4 motors, I am more a friend of one single motor. So I have to find out, what I prefer.
For my Micro Seiki RX 5000 I am using the Sperling Motor.
http://sperling-audio.de/portfolio/motor-housing-power-supplies/?lang=en
I will get a second Sperling Motor next week and I will find out than.
(for the Blue Giant the Sperling motor has not enough power (in my opinion),
I do prefer the others, but Sperling is much cheaper, like 2000,- for a set up with 2 motors)
What do you mean by outdated Shakti, noisy bearings or without fine speed control?
david
David,
mainly five points:
- Noisy Bearing
- little vibrating pulley
- no fine speed control
- speed changes over listening hours due to warm up of the motor / Motor electronics (after 30 to 60 min speed need to be fine tuned again)
- performance change over the time (warm motor sounds better, so full performance after 30 min)
Many modern motors (unfortunately not all) are doing this aspects better, some of them do even sound significant better.
Juergen
mainly five points:
- Noisy Bearing
- little vibrating pulley
- no fine speed control
- speed changes over listening hours due to warm up of the motor / Motor electronics (after 30 to 60 min speed need to be fine tuned again)
- performance change over the time (warm motor sounds better, so full performance after 30 min)
Many modern motors (unfortunately not all) are doing this aspects better, some of them do even sound significant better.
Juergen
Did you try a speed controller like Phoenix or Walker on the original motor ? They are pretty stable.
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