What ethernet cables are members using?

[Gunnar]

Well straight out the box the Melco C100 is much better than the Nordost Heimdall 2 ethernet. Its not subtle. I was just hoping for an improvement over the Blue Jeans ethernet given the relative low price of the C100, so this is a welcome surprise.

A qualifier... I am just using a basic Netgear switch, not an audiophile switch. I suspected in this setup some king of noise isolation, such as the asymmetric floating ground of the C100, would be a benefit. If I had a higher quality audiophile switch with more advanced isolation perhaps this ground drain topology the Melco has would be negated and the Nordost could be preferred.

But as it stands this is an awesome improvement for little outlay, as it will be a while before I can afford 2x Muon Pro's.

I connected this cable with ground (the connector with Melco label) on the switch end, as Melco suggests. And this is how every other 'one end floated' cable I have had (such as asymmetric floated power cables) is connected. When only one end is connected to ground/shield, noise will drain that way, so you want it to drain AWAY from the direction your downstream signal is travelling. I am open to trying it the other way though (as Torben's dealer suggested) and will get around to testing that.

Not surprised. Melcos Lan cable is an extremely good value for its price.

 

[Puma Cat]

Ethernet Cable - Unbalanced Ground - “Floating” Shield

It seems that more and more cable manufacturers are using asymmetric grounding in Ethernet cables (asymmetric drain wire). I believe it's called "floating' shield".

Here, one end of the cable is connected to the ground point, so that unwanted noise (noise-reducing), which comes in either from connected components or from the outside, is diverted towards the ground point.

The ungrounded, opposite end of the cable comes with a "floating" shield that has no electrical connection to the connector plug. In this way, unwanted noise should not be transmitted to the downstream devices.

View attachment 106783

Late last year, Melco also launched a cable with a “Floating” shield.

"The C100 benefits from the cable's asymmetric grounding, where one end of the cable is connected to the ground point. According to Melco, this shunts unwanted noise, either external or from connected equipment, in a direction toward the ground point (denoted by a Melco logo on the connector plug) and thus does not disturb the sensitive signal transmission."

I myself have no experience with “floating” shielding, but I would be happy to hear about your experiences/opinions

Torben

They do that so that the cable won't carry leakage current. Leakage current results in threshold jitter, which impacts timing, the impact of which is audible. This is very likely why Melco is doing this.

 

[TRHH]

They do that so that the cable won't carry leakage current. Leakage current results in threshold jitter, which impacts timing, the impact of which is audible. This is very likely why Melco is doing this.

Would it make sense to use asymmetric grounding from LAN socket to switch. There are many other cables "running" in this section (behind the sideborard)




Torben

 

[vert]

@agisthos - I was told by a dealer of AIM, that "grounded" should be on the streamer/DAC etc. and "not grounded" on the switch.

Torben

I have the Melco C100 and the correct position of the Melco label should be on the opposite side of the streamer/dac etc. It sounds better that way.

 

[treitz3]

Seems to me that folks that are using Shunyata Alpha or higher-spec Ethernet cables won't/don't need a Muon filter since their inline C-Mode filters perform the same function of removing/attenutating EMI/RFI noise that the Muon filter does.

From DOEEET 2.0: "Usually, EMI/RFI noise is common mode noise, so the solution to all but eliminate unwanted high frequencies with an EMI filter, either as a separate device, or embedded in circuit boards."

Shunyata web site C-Mode filter module description:

Hello Puma Cat. I wouldn't necessarily stick with that assumption. As mentioned, I have the Shunyata Venom, the Alpha and the Omega in my streaming rig. When I installed the Muon Pro made a markedly noticeable change in the cleanliness and presentation. Especially that presentation!

They may say they do the same thing but my rig is telling me otherwise. Maybe one filters more, maybe one filters slightly different levels/areas of noise. I don't know. I am definitely not as well versed as to the intricacies and technical aspects between all of the filters but I can offer you my observations as to what I hear.

As mentioned earlier, all 3 Shunyata cables sounded great but the Muon offered more. I got the Muon Pro just based upon my observations with the regular Muon in another system and that prompted me to look into these Muon devices. I ended up getting the Muon Pro and that was a very wise decision on my part.

It's akin to the Shunyata cables being the cake. An extremely tasty and moist cake, like Grandma would make (at least my Grandma). The Muon Pro was the icing on the cake.

BTW, @Network Acoustics - Welcome to the forum and thanks for an outstanding product! My ears sure do thank you.

Tom

 

[Willgolf]

I have had my Muon Pro Cabling system and filter for about a month now. I thought my music was good when I added a silver QSA jitterplug to the end of my Power Conditioner. Then I added Network Acoustics cable. I wish I could explain it but my music is just way better. It sounds more alive and right in front of me. Every detail and the smallest background instruments are now prevalent. Thank you Rob and Network Acoustics. I will be getting an upgraded Lucas Audio LDMS Music Server next week. I can't wait to plug the Muon Pro into it.

 

[Puma Cat]

Hello Puma Cat. I wouldn't necessarily stick with that assumption. As mentioned, I have the Shunyata Venom, the Alpha and the Omega in my streaming rig. When I installed the Muon Pro made a markedly noticeable change in the cleanliness and presentation. Especially that presentation!

They may say they do the same thing but my rig is telling me otherwise. Maybe one filters more, maybe one filters slightly different levels/areas of noise. I don't know. I am definitely not as well versed as to the intricacies and technical aspects between all of the filters but I can offer you my observations as to what I hear.

As mentioned earlier, all 3 Shunyata cables sounded great but the Muon offered more. I got the Muon Pro just based upon my observations with the regular Muon in another system and that prompted me to look into these Muon devices. I ended up getting the Muon Pro and that was a very wise decision on my part.

It's akin to the Shunyata cables being the cake. An extremely tasty and moist cake, like Grandma would make (at least my Grandma). The Muon Pro was the icing on the cake.

BTW, @Network Acoustics - Welcome to the forum and thanks for an outstanding product! My ears sure do thank you.

Tom

Thanks for the info, Tom. Cheers.

 

[vert]

I have the Melco C100 and the correct position of the Melco label should be on the opposite side of the streamer/dac etc. It sounds better that way.

I was mistaken, the label should be on the device side. Away from the cable modem/ router, for example.

I am surprised at how good it is.

It’s at least on the same level of several ethernet cables I have that cost much more. If not outperformed them.

 

[agisthos]

I just sat down and had a good listen, changing the direction of the Melco C100 back and forth 2 times. In my system it was obvious the Melco label (ground) should be on the switch side, not the streamer side. It was quieter and more transparent, blacker background e.t.c

I think this is going to be system dependant so try it both ways. These Melco ethernet cables are thin, flexible and easy to manage, so it's easy to do this comparison.

But even in the non preferred direction, the Melco easily better than my old 5x more expensive Nordost.

 

[kennyb123]

On the subject of our new Switch, we are looking at a Late May/early June launch. Other than that i'm really sorry but i cant give you anymore details right now but we will be releasing more information when we get a bit closer to the launch

As far as the new switch, any chance you might be able to disclose whether or not this will support gigabit ethernet? I’ve been itching to remove my 100mbps bottleneck so I’m wondering if your new switch might be a potential candidate.

Congrats on the review of the Muon Plus earlier this month in high-fi advice. That device is a potential candidate as well so I will also be interested to learn if that same filtering technology will be making it into your switch.

 

[jasond]

There is also a review here of the MUON PRO by Hans B.

 

[backpacker96]

I have tried AQ Diamond Ethernet Cable, and compared it with a one-dollar industrial network cable, the difference is very, very small, and I think industrial network cable has its merits.

 

[jasond]

I also use an AQ Diamond as well over the years many other cables. The Ethernet cable alone won’t be a solution - rather than will exploit its potential depending on the noise / interference of the components connected within the network.

 

[Network Acoustics]

As far as the new switch, any chance you might be able to disclose whether or not this will support gigabit ethernet? I’ve been itching to remove my 100mbps bottleneck so I’m wondering if your new switch might be a potential candidate.

Congrats on the review of the Muon Plus earlier this month in high-fi advice. That device is a potential candidate as well so I will also be interested to learn if that same filtering technology will be making it into your switch.

Thank you for your kind words about the Hifi Advice review and in regard to our new Switch, it has 6 x universal 1GB/s ports, 2 x 100mb/s and 4 x SFP ports. It does include our new VOLT DC power filtering system and some elements of MUON, but ethernet filtering is still best executed externally as complimentary process

 

[Bso]

They do that so that the cable won't carry leakage current. Leakage current results in threshold jitter, which impacts timing, the impact of which is audible. This is very likely why Melco is doing this.

Can you please define 'threshold jitter'? How is this different from plain vanilla jitter? How does leakage current produce it and in what magnitude?

 

[Puma Cat]

Can you please define 'threshold jitter'? How is this different from plain vanilla jitter? How does leakage current produce it and in what magnitude?

Read this white paper by professional Ethernet engineer and EtherREGEN designer, John Swenson:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

Threshold jitter is different than deterministic jitter...
https://www.ieee802.org/3/ba/public/jan09/li_01_0109.pdf

 

[Bso]

Read this white paper by professional Ethernet engineer and EtherREGEN designer, John Swenson:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

Threshold jitter is different than deterministic jitter...
https://www.ieee802.org/3/ba/public/jan09/li_01_0109.pdf

Thank you - please click to the link at the left for another review of the EtherREGEN not posted on the vendor's website - sorry I missed it the first time.

Have UpTone performed EMI and RFI testing/certification on this device? If so, could you kindly post whatever you can?

The 'cure' is perhaps worse than the disease.

 

[kennyb123]

Thank you.

Have UpTone performed EMI and RFI testing/certification on this device? If so, could you kindly post whatever you can?
The 'cure' is perhaps worse than the disease.

I measured this myself using a meter I purchased on Amazon. I found that each of my components could cause the meter to react - and that the ER wasn’t the worst offender.

I imagine Uptone could have charged much more to house its circuitry in a thick chassis, but I think most of their customers would have opted for it to be housed in exactly the chassis it shipped with.

The thing about RF and EMI is that the magnitude diminishes by the square of the distance. Just placing a device that emits this noise a few inches further from sensitive components can make a big difference. This can easily be seen by taking measurements with a meter oneself.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I measured this myself using a meter I purchased on Amazon. I found that each of my components could cause the meter to react - and that the ER wasn’t the worst offender.

I imagine Uptone could have charged much more to house its circuitry in a thick chassis, but I think most of their customers would have opted for it to be housed in exactly the chassis it shipped with.

The thing about RF and EMI is that the magnitude diminishes by the square of the distance. Just placing a device that emits this noise a few inches further from sensitive components can make a big difference. This can easily be seen by taking measurements with a meter oneself.

Sir, what meter are you using? I find your post very interesting.

 

[kennyb123]

Sir, what meter are you using? I find your post very interesting.

No longer available on Amazon but there are many similar models listed.