What ethernet cables are members using?

[Network Acoustics]

Seems to me that folks that are using Shunyata Alpha or higher-spec Ethernet cables won't/don't need a Muon filter since their inline C-Mode filters perform the same function of removing/attenutating EMI/RFI noise that the Muon filter does.

From DOEEET 2.0: "Usually, EMI/RFI noise is common mode noise, so the solution to all but eliminate unwanted high frequencies with an EMI filter, either as a separate device, or embedded in circuit boards."

Shunyata web site C-Mode filter module description:

Hi There sorry to but into the conversation. Just to let you know we do use common mode chokes in our ENO Filters, but not in our MUON or MUON Pro Filters which use our proprietary filtering technology

 

[3rdRock]

Hi There sorry to but into the conversation. Just to let you know we do use common mode chokes in our ENO Filters, but not in our MUON or MUON Pro Filters which use our proprietary filtering technology

So... would there be any gained benefit to using both filters inline (ENO > MUON > DAC) ?

 

[Network Acoustics]

So... would there be any gained benefit to using both filters inline (ENO > MUON > DAC) ?

Hi There, technically the ENO will work inline with the MUON or MUON Pro filter, but it will limit the the effectiveness of the far higher performing MUON, so we dont recommend using them together in this way

 

[Puma Cat]

Hi There sorry to but into the conversation. Just to let you know we do use common mode chokes in our ENO Filters, but not in our MUON or MUON Pro Filters which use our proprietary filtering technology

Thank you for the info; that is helpful to know. Cheers!

 

[jasond]

@Network Acoustics Maybe you can outline just some information on your filtering approach, as most of the time people mix up any „Ethernet filtering“ into one, like I heard just recently with the new iFi LAN iSilencer.

 

[Network Acoustics]

@Network Acoustics Maybe you can outline just some information on your filtering approach, as most of the time people mix up any „Ethernet filtering“ into one, like I heard just recently with the new iFi LAN iSilencer.

@jasond to answer your question and following on from my previous post, we do use common-mode chokes in our ENO Filter, implemented in an a way which find effective, but this approach is limited in how far it can go as it will also attenuate the Ethernet signal, and too much filtering means no Ethernet signal.

The proprietary filtering modules, combined with the conductors and other materials used in our MUON and MUON Pro filters, provides individual filtering to each of the 4 (in 100mb/s designs) or 8 cores (1gb/s designs), in order to more accurately target just high frequency (RFI) interference, and to prevent it from entering the ground plane of the streamer and DAC

 

[kennyb123]

The proprietary filtering modules, combined with the conductors and other materials used in our MUON and MUON Pro filters, provides individual filtering to each of the 4 (in 100mb/s designs) or 8 cores (1gb/s designs), in order to more accurately target just high frequency (RFI) interference, and to prevent it from entering the ground plane of the streamer and DAC

I’ve read only positive comments about your filters. Thanks for jumping in to share more details.

 

[dbeau]

I’ve read only positive comments about your filters. Thanks for jumping in to share more details.

To add another positive of the Muon Pro:
I have not before had any such upgrade devices such as switches, routers, filters in my system until adding the Muon last week between a Mesh Node and my Antipodes K50 server. The improvement was immediate throughout the frequency range = a keeper.

 

[agisthos]

@Network Acoustics tell us a bit about your upcoming switch. What’s it do that is unique or the design focus ?

And are you still of the opinion that switches prefer a high quality smps rather than a lps? I have found that myself.

 

[Network Acoustics]

@Network Acoustics tell us a bit about your upcoming switch. What’s it do that is unique or the design focus ?

And are you still of the opinion that switches prefer a high quality smps rather than a lps? I have found that myself.

Hi Sorry for the slow response and to answer your last question, yes we're still big fans of SMPS with networking devices. A good switch-mode will give you all the benefits of lower noise floor, but without the loss of dynamics that seem to come with LPS when used in certain applications. Its hard to give and absolute definitive one is better than the other answer because implementation and design of the power management within each device varies. On the subject of our new Switch, we are looking at a Late May/early June launch. Other than that i'm really sorry but i cant give you anymore details right now but we will be releasing more information when we get a bit closer to the launch.

 

[Puma Cat]

Hi Sorry for the slow response and to answer your last question, yes we're still big fans of SMPS with networking devices. A good switch-mode will give you all the benefits of lower noise floor, but without the loss of dynamics that seem to come with LPS when used in certain applications. Its hard to give and absolute definitive one is better than the other answer because implementation and design of the power management within each device varies. On the subject of our new Switch, we are looking at a Late May/early June launch. Other than that i'm really sorry but i cant give you anymore details right now but we will be releasing more information when we get a bit closer to the launch.

The problem with SMPS is they permit the passage of high-source impedance leakage current which causes threshold jitter and concomitantly, timing problems with digital source content. In my experience, the impact of SMPS is clearly audible. My recommendation is to read this white paper by UpTone engineer, John Swenson:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

 

[agisthos]

The problem with SMPS is they permit the passage of high-source impedance leakage current which causes threshold jitter and concomitantly, timing problems with digital source content. In my experience, the impact of SMPS is clearly audible. My recommendation is to read this white paper by UpTone engineer, John Swenson:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...enson_EtherREGEN_white_paper.pdf?v=1583429386

I have been using LPM upgrades for over a decade on many devices, including Uptone's own JS-2. While this rule about SMPS is generally correct for digital devices such as DAC's and streamers, I was surprised to find on switches the iFi's X and Elite SMPS was better than the JS-2. Hans Beekhuyzen also mentioned finding the same thing, he theorizes its something to do with the high speed nature of the switching chips in network gear.

This result could have just been specific to my network setup, but this experience halted my bias against SMPS, or at least the lower noise ones made by iFi.

 

[jasond]

@agisthos I experienced the same. The iPower Elite is an outstanding SMPS. Regarding LPS I‘d recommend a Farad Super with upgraded fuse and Furutech inlet.

 

[kennyb123]

While this rule about SMPS is generally correct for digital devices such as DAC's and streamers, I was surprised to find on switches the iFi's X and Elite SMPS was better than the JS-2. Hans Beekhuyzen also mentioned finding the same thing, he theorizes its something to do with the high speed nature of the switching chips in network gear.

Switching mode supplies have the potential to be superior than linear supplies for digital devices providing that they are done right. Antipodes provides one example of them being done right in their Oladra.

 

[Puma Cat]

Good info. Thanks, gents. Kenny's reference to the Antipodes looks of interest.

Cheers.

 

[jasond]

Not wanting to go off-topic though this is really important. No matter if SMPS or LPS, get a power conditioner like Audioquest Niagara 1200 and up - and every single connected device will perform better.

 

[TRHH]

Ethernet Cable - Unbalanced Ground - “Floating” Shield

It seems that more and more cable manufacturers are using asymmetric grounding in Ethernet cables (asymmetric drain wire). I believe it's called "floating' shield".

Here, one end of the cable is connected to the ground point, so that unwanted noise (noise-reducing), which comes in either from connected components or from the outside, is diverted towards the ground point.

The ungrounded, opposite end of the cable comes with a "floating" shield that has no electrical connection to the connector plug. In this way, unwanted noise should not be transmitted to the downstream devices.



Late last year, Melco also launched a cable with a “Floating” shield.

"The C100 benefits from the cable's asymmetric grounding, where one end of the cable is connected to the ground point. According to Melco, this shunts unwanted noise, either external or from connected equipment, in a direction toward the ground point (denoted by a Melco logo on the connector plug) and thus does not disturb the sensitive signal transmission."

I myself have no experience with “floating” shielding, but I would be happy to hear about your experiences/opinions

Torben

 

[agisthos]

@TRHH

I just received my Melco C100 in the mail a few hours ago. I got one specifically to test this asymmetric ground theory. Will try it later tonight.

But the chart posted above seems to be the reverse of how I planned to connect it. Shouldn’t the grounded end be at the source, and ungrounded end the destination?

 

[TRHH]

@agisthos - I was told by a dealer of AIM, that "grounded" should be on the streamer/DAC etc. and "not grounded" on the switch.

Torben

 

[agisthos]

Well straight out the box the Melco C100 is much better than the Nordost Heimdall 2 ethernet. Its not subtle. I was just hoping for an improvement over the Blue Jeans ethernet given the relative low price of the C100, so this is a welcome surprise.

A qualifier... I am just using a basic Netgear switch, not an audiophile switch. I suspected in this setup some king of noise isolation, such as the asymmetric floating ground of the C100, would be a benefit. If I had a higher quality audiophile switch with more advanced isolation perhaps this ground drain topology the Melco has would be negated and the Nordost could be preferred.

But as it stands this is an awesome improvement for little outlay, as it will be a while before I can afford 2x Muon Pro's.

I connected this cable with ground (the connector with Melco label) on the switch end, as Melco suggests. And this is how every other 'one end floated' cable I have had (such as asymmetric floated power cables) is connected. When only one end is connected to ground/shield, noise will drain that way, so you want it to drain AWAY from the direction your downstream signal is travelling. I am open to trying it the other way though (as Torben's dealer suggested) and will get around to testing that.