I actually like the condominium approach , marketing genius
What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
Care to explain? I have no opinion on this, but am interested to learn.
Its a 5 way system , with items for that many drivers , multiple bypass caps , conjugates , impedance matching et al , thats not unusual ..
I agree with you on surface area, power handling, BL/mass, bandwidth, and crossover design, but I’d add this: peak SPL alone doesn’t ensure true dynamics. Real dynamics require enough sensitivity and a stable impedance for transient current, low thermal/mechanical compression, and proper crossover/transient behavior to keep both micro- and macro-dynamics intact.Agree on selection of drivers , design implementation and crossover design is (for all speakers regardless ) critical , Disagree completely, it wont deliver every ounce of dynamics on a non pam pam amplifier..!
Once the loudspeaker system is capable of delivering the necessary peak db level it will deliver full dynamic expression of any recording. So whats critical is the ability to hit dynamic peak with the lowest distortion.
Criteria :
A. Large enuff surface area , which does require multiple drivers . ( 50% lower thd for every doubling of surface area )
B. Power Handling capability without compression.
C. Low Driver mass vs BL
D. Full power bandwidth 30-20K.
E. Proper crossover design with good Transfer function ..!
These are known knowns , not new to loudspeaker design, regardless of high sensitivity vs low sensitivity approach.
As to efficiency thats expressed in percentages so i think its best we stop following accounting principles by calling everything efficiency..
If everything else fails lets shoot for 1 acoustic watt ..
Well, he can always experience that gorgeous champagne finish in AG's own showroom, where the Trio in this color is on display.
B and E are the real problems with your “just put in more power” approach. Low sensitivity and low impedance drivers do suffer from thermal compression and complex, high order crossovers soak up power that robs dynamics.Agree on selection of drivers , design implementation and crossover design is (for all speakers regardless ) critical , Disagree completely, it wont deliver every ounce of dynamics on a non pam pam amplifier..!
Once the loudspeaker system is capable of delivering the necessary peak db level it will deliver full dynamic expression of any recording. So whats critical is the ability to hit dynamic peak with the lowest distortion.
Criteria :
A. Large enuff surface area , which does require multiple drivers . ( 50% lower thd for every doubling of surface area )
B. Power Handling capability without compression.
C. Low Driver mass vs BL
D. Full power bandwidth 30-20K.
E. Proper crossover design with good Transfer function ..!
These are known knowns , not new to loudspeaker design, regardless of high sensitivity vs low sensitivity approach.
As to efficiency thats expressed in percentages so i think its best we stop following accounting principles by calling everything efficiency..
If everything else fails lets shoot for 1 acoustic watt ..
Conjecture for sure , not to mention the complex high order crossover thrown in from far left field never discussed ..!
PS: Your response has nothing to do with what i posted , Beee jeezus the ignorance is astounding..!
This is not single driver theory or approach , we are discussing systems..
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Thermal compression is real and not conjecture. Most multiway speakers use complex filters of 2nd or higher order. It has everything to do with your post, maybe think more…?? After all your A says you need multiple drivers…this usually means a multiway crossover…except for a very few designs like Grandinote and Horning. No one is talking about single drivers here…
Compression is one of the most critical factors in music reproduction and one of the most often overlooked topics. Other areas must also be addressed, including time and phase distortion; however, get those right, and you're well on your way!
Says the Wilson owner! …who’s already planning to ‘upgrade’ from Wilson to high-efficiency speakers with simple crossovers.Says the Wilson owner !
This is completely untrue. I spoke to David today. I think he is wondering why you make stuff up. You should email him and check.
Amps matter to when it comes to compression. Some of the images of the AG have big SS amps driving them. I put my Audion SET 845 in and I can't stand how muffled and fat the bass sounds. Its run for 3 days now. My KT88 PP are much more articulate and dynamic.
Fwiw, this a generously polite interpretation of ddk's reply.
i think my misunderstanding came because David made this remark
"and bonzo is right bypass Sophia & Sasha v1 for v2!"
Taking a sagacious walk into the Wilson family From many years of ESL life
Ok ,I am replacing a set of ESL with a set of very nice original Sophia's.. Having heard them in a rather larger room I am hoping for good results Now I have had ESL for many years and liked the airiness and spatial detail.. However I have been yearning for more detail and pin point sound...
www.whatsbestforum.com
on a thread where I had a few posts earlier mentioned sasha 2 is better than previous versions including Alexias - on memory I did not remember he had qualified only with Sophia and Sasha 1, because I have been on in various posts against the bigger wilsons, and here it was the Alexia.
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Are these audiophile terms? Stereo terms? How do you get emotional connection to the music when you are paying attention to these terms - instead of the music?
Let me give you some context for the thread: we all see things from a different perspective. My goal is to find the best horn speakers for me. A rational decision making approach calls for selecting a good handful of speakers to audition, before selecting one that meets one's subjective preferences and one's goals. Hence the title.
You bring up interesting points about horn-loading all the octaves. It may be important to you, but obviously not everyone agrees. Please convince the audience why this is better or critical from your perspective. thanks
This probably has more to do with output transformer saturation than compression/dynamics per se.
Brad, please think about these questions:
- wilson benesch use no crossover for midrange but it is not more dynamic than Wilson Alexandria.
- Wilson Alexandria does not use first order crossover but it is as dynamic as good horns (horns with first order crossover).
- Aries Crates big horn was very compress in munich 2024 It was even less dynamic than small wilsons.
- WAMM in Munich 2025 was more dynamic than some horns in munich 2025
- big WE horns were the most dynamic speakers in the show but not all horns are as dynamic as WE horns
The specs/theories are not the whole story of design.
The key is our listening skills to understand which loudspeakers are more advanced
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