Volume and Listening

[Cableman]

Cableman, I spent a good 10 minutes searching back through all your comments on the Magico thread, and I could find no answer to the pertinent question. That is, how can you set a single ideal volume level for different recordings in your room when the volume of various recordings vary widely? If you’ve explained it before, can you explain it again? Thanks

When you set RRV correctly the recording plays correctly. For the record I personally set RRV with what some might consider less dynamic music. Then when I play more dynamic music because the RRV is set it doesn’t matter. The latter and the former play correctly IMHO

 

[dcathro]

Hi David

once the RRV is set it should not be changed. Apologies if I wasn’t clear.

OK, so you are saying it is one setting dependent on the room?

 

[Cableman]

OK, so you are saying it is one setting dependent on the room?

The room yes (and of course the amp speaker interface) hence RRV right room volume

 

[PeterA]

Try playing Joni Mitchells Morningtown then Holts Planet Symphony ‘Jupiter’ both at the RRV then tell me you still don’t think you can play the latter ‘loud’ and the former ‘reasonably quiet’, and both sound absolutely spot on at the RRV

I do not understand Right Room Volume. It seems to me that a full orchestra should perform in a symphony hall and Joni Mitchell is best heard in a small cafe. How can they both sound spot on in the same room?

 

[dcathro]

The room yes and of course the amp speaker interface hence RRV right room volume

OK, but what about variations in mastering?

I use CD as a source, and mush of my collection are first pressings from 1982 to 1985. These CDs are mastered at a much lower volume than CDs from the mid/late 90's onward. I find that if I am playing one of my CDs and then a friend asks me to play one of theirs (a modern cd), I have to turn the volume down.

 

[Cableman]

I do not understand Right Room Volume. It seems to me that a full orchestra should perform in a symphony hall and Joni Mitchell is best heard in a small cafe. How can they both sound spot on in the same room?

If Joni was still playing small cafes she wouldn’t be able to sleep in good hotels and go shopping for jewels. But she plays with great clarity detail great air around her vocals (that reaches the roof) and yes dynamics in my music room

 

[Cableman]

OK, but what about variations in mastering?

I use CD as a source, and mush of my collection are first pressings from 1982 to 1985. These CDs are mastered at a much lower volume than CDs from the mid/late 90's onward. I find that if I am playing one of my CDs and then a friend asks me to play one of theirs (a modern cd), I have to turn the volume down.

I appreciate and understand your point. Often CDs are poor, bricked and otherwise. Yet the RRV does not require you to turn anything down. It plays it correctly as best as the mastering allows.

 

[Kingrex]

I interpret cableman's RRV to be more a recognition when the amp and speaker click and they react with the room optimally. What I mean is an amp and speaker when matched well should result in the cones moving at optimum excursion with the amp exerting at optimal output. A well balanced pair. On top of that, those 2 need to work synergistically with the room. If all that is balanced well, there would be a small window of volume adjustment necessary when playing most all music where your preference of optimal performance is achieved.

Please note I say "your preference". I do believe a good system in a good room would have a somewhat wide window for volume playback where the system is still in its sweet spot. As others noted, your "mood" may dictate volume. Maybe its Friday, you have Bruno Mars going and its pumping loud. Maybe your winding down from a hard day and its Vivaldi only moderate. Either way, in a certain volume range the overall system would still be in its stride.

I do remember a couple years back listening at Jazdocs home. I don't remember him ever touching the volume as we went through album after album. His volume was never loud. It was alive and enjoyable. There was definitely a sweet spot in his listening space. And the mood of the session said leave it alone.

 

[Cableman]

I interpret cableman's RRV to be more a recognition when the amp and speaker click and they react with the room optimally. What I mean is an amp and speaker when matched well should result in the cones moving at optimum excursion with the amp exerting at optimal output. A well balanced pair. On top of that, those 2 need to work synergistically with the room. If all that is balanced well, there would be a small window of volume adjustment necessary when playing most all music where your preference of optimal performance is achieved.

Please note I say "your preference". I do believe a good system in a good room would have a somewhat wide window for volume playback where the system is still in its sweet spot. As others noted, your "mood" may dictate volume. Maybe its Friday, you have Bruno Mars going and its pumping loud. Maybe your winding down from a hard day and its Vivaldi only moderate. Either way, in a certain volume range the overall system would still be in its stride.

I do remember a couple years back listening at Jazdocs home. I don't remember him ever touching the volume as we went through album after album. His volume was never loud. It was alive and enjoyable. There was definitely a sweet spot in his listening space. And the mood of the session said leave it alone.

Great explanation. I wish I were that good with words. One correction though. There is NOT a ‘wide window’. On the contrary it is a minute precise window where even a tad out is incorrect.
Once I thought I had it spot on then I played a track I knew particularly well and boy was I shocked. Significant ( for me) amounts of info missing!
I tweaked it ever so slightly and voila spot on.

I keep notes. It was almost nothing of a movement on the dial but for me it made a huge difference.

 

[spiritofmusic]

What happens to those whose volume levels increase and decrease by 0.5dB or 1dB or 1.5dB steps? I'm sure this must have some bearing on this theory of RRV.

 

[Hear Here]

Cableman, I spent a good 10 minutes searching back through all your comments on the Magico thread,

That 10 minutes of your life could have been spent so much more productively doing just about anything else! IMHO

 

[Cableman]

What happens to those whose volume levels increase and decrease by 0.5dB or 1dB or 1.5dB steps? I'm sure this must have some bearing on this theory of RRV.

I use the volume button on the pre. Remotes are for dummies lol

 

[spiritofmusic]

Some dummies (although not all) should know that the same dB steps are replicated on the preamp as they are on the remote lol.

 

[Cableman]

Some dummies (although not all) should know that the same dB steps are replicated on the preamp as they are on the remote lol.

Not mine. Who’s the dummy?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ah, now that is the question. Let's just assume different preamps have adjustments in 0.5, 1 and 1.5dB steps. Remote or on the preamp irrelevant here, it's the steps that matter. I turned down a preamp partially because I could never get the right setting in my room for many songs, a preamp w finer settings suited me better. How does this reflect on your RRV proposal?

 

[K3RMIT]

is the RRV mean just under the room interacting ?
or just under too loud in a small room and near field setting ?

 

[Rhapsody]

Is it possible for someone to point to somewhere/anywhere where RRV is explained other than via Cableman's explanation? I personally have never heard either the term or conversation about it prior to the last week via Cableman.

 

[Cableman]

Ah, now that is the question. Let's just assume different preamps have adjustments in 0.5, 1 and 1.5dB steps. Remote or on the preamp irrelevant here, it's the steps that matter. I turned down a preamp partially because I could never get the right setting in my room for many songs, a preamp w finer settings suited me better. How does this reflect on your RRV proposal?

I don’t use a remote. The volume control on the pre does not go up/down in steps. But yes I see the problem with a stepped incremental adjustment.

 

[microstrip]

Is it possible for someone to point to somewhere/anywhere where RRV is explained other than via Cableman's explanation? I personally have never heard either the term or conversation about it prior to the last week via Cableman.

All I have read is against RRV - Peter Walker of Quad for example considered that each recording has a defined loudness to sound at its best and we should adjust our systems for it. The same for Karen Summer of Transparent Audio in a separate thread going on.

I have recordings that have precise recommendations to set a specific acoustic level at an exact point of the recording to match the real levels at the recording studio. These levels imply different volume settings.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Is it possible for someone to point to somewhere/anywhere where RRV is explained other than via Cableman's explanation? I personally have never heard either the term or conversation about it prior to the last week via Cableman.

It was my first time as well
And its not on this list either i think he invented it