Vitus SM-103 MK.II new mono blocks
- Thread starter Easy Gliders
- Start date
I don't know why. It would appear logical to frequently sell in Hong Kong due to space limitations in the average home versus an American home. The demand is so great in the rest of the world that maybe there is an absence of marketing in HK. I know that they can't make their products fast enough to fill immediate demands. The manufacturer and/or distributor would know better than me why it doesn't appear more frequently in HK.
Then again, many big name high end audio manufacturers such as McIntosh and B&W are common but their recent gear are not to my liking or my many friends liking to own. Why is that? Plus, putting high powered SS amps on horn speakers seems ludicrous and unnecessary (800 watts into 2 ohms on a 100+ db efficient speaker). Many Asian audiophiles listen to horn speakers. Do they need big Vitus amps for them?
Many Asia audiophiles listen to horn speakers ? Definitely misinformation. Among the high end players that I know in Msia, Spore , HK & Indo & some of the system I have seen in audio tours in Philippines & Indonesia , there is hardly anyone who listen to horn speakers . Maybe 1 big syst I have seen in Indonesia with Cessaro.
HK audiophiles go for the best stuff. Westminster no where in sight .
Avartgarde producing only horn speakers designed only SS for their amplification . They think SS is good enough for their horn speakers . Is all abt implementation.
Demand by 8 dealers worldwide including HK must be so great that they can’t cope .
HK audiophiles go for the best stuff. Westminster no where in sight .
Avartgarde producing only horn speakers designed only SS for their amplification . They think SS is good enough for their horn speakers . Is all abt implementation.
Demand by 8 dealers worldwide including HK must be so great that they can’t cope .
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...it wouldn't be the first time the Asian marketplace/consumers avoided local products for the cache of "foreign" options. Audio. Clothing. Cars. Whiskey. Not sure I would draw any grand conclusions regarding market penetration of a three year old product from the above comments.
Disclaimer: I own and really like Westminster Reis and Quest pre. I chose them over Vitus, as it happens, after hearing some Vitus gear...in Singapore.
I heard the Westy gear in my home, on demo. The NA distro sent me four amps, pre and a full loom of cables to demo. He flew from Cali to NY to set them up. I could not get the V dealer three miles from my home to get the monos and pre I was interested in for me to demo. Which were more expensive, BTW.
Point being: these purchase decisions can be multi-faceted and personal, as well as influenced by subtle persuasions in the marketplace.
Disclaimer: I own and really like Westminster Reis and Quest pre. I chose them over Vitus, as it happens, after hearing some Vitus gear...in Singapore.
I heard the Westy gear in my home, on demo. The NA distro sent me four amps, pre and a full loom of cables to demo. He flew from Cali to NY to set them up. I could not get the V dealer three miles from my home to get the monos and pre I was interested in for me to demo. Which were more expensive, BTW.
Point being: these purchase decisions can be multi-faceted and personal, as well as influenced by subtle persuasions in the marketplace.
Fair comment after demo but bullshit marketing damaging the reputation of a brand should be called out.
People do make odd buying decisions.
I have a friend who sold his AF1 & replaced it with an acrylic much cheaper TT which he sold eventually. How distributor demoed the inferiority of the TT? By releasing all the air from the bladders of the footers & not engaging vacuum suction . & he was given 1st class service. Yes, agreed . Sometimes is not about sound quality alone
You probably are correct. I should have limited my statement to Japan. Japanese audiophiles often employ horn speaker systems with SET amps in their small homes. I do not know what most HK, Indonesian or Philippine audiophiles prefer.
Are you certain that HK audiophiles go for the best stuff? Here in the U.S., audiophiles often go for name brands and the sound of their systems can be abysmal. The equipment can be good but the systems are thrown together and amusical.
I've heard dozens of home systems that are $200+K to know including my neighbor who has a $500K system. He used junk Pangea power cables and had gone through a dozen amps in a decade. He purchased GroverHuffman power cables and Westminster Labs REI amps and is in heaven with his YG Sonja 2.3s. At least I can enjoy vocals and non-large orchestral music on his system now.
Give me a break...your Amps are NOT Class A amps...You've been sold a bill of goods and marketing and now you're just schilling for something that isn't what you were told it is. If your amps were pure Class A at the wattage they are they would burn a GD hole in your floor. You want to truly hear Class A you listen to Riviera, or Sugden. Which I will put against your Westminsters ANY day of the week.
Hey, gentlemen. Can we please turn the heat down a little bit? It's just a hobby.
Tom
Tom
I can add Classe DR-3 and Levinson ML-2 , both of these weigh about 70 pounds each for a "mere" 25 watts of TRUE Class A. A true 100 Class A into 8 OHMs would weigh at least 280 pounds or so.. I think Gryphon flagship models are true Class A designs, and those weigh ALOT, and are huge.
So you state that my amps are fake Class A. So what? They sound fabulous in my system and other's systems. So you state that Riviera, or Sugden are superior amps because their Class A or ? I owned several Class A amps with the last being EAR 890s and they are grossly inferior, but they're so hot that they raised the temperature 3 to 4 degrees in my room. I also have and used Class A/B amps for 50+ years. The finest system I every heard were using Class A/B tube amps (VAC 450s in a $1 to $1.5 million system).
Greg Weaver states "that as good as the Westminster Lab combo is, please don't make the mistake of thinking they are in the same strata as the Stern/Heisenberg combo, products that, in my experience, simply set the bar for the overall excellence of performance in electronics." My comment was those Heisenberg's have enormous power output but weigh 145 lbs. each, 4 times my Westminster Labs REI and 5 times the power output as well as $105,000 or 3 times the price of REIs.
So, are you comfortable stating that the Riviera and Sugden amps are equal or superior to the Stern/Heisenberg combo?
I hope you know that amps should be matched with speakers and no one amp works with all speakers and vice versa. Also, a listeners' hearing and consideration for music/sonic preferences should be considered.
I thought the discussion was concerning the Vitus amps. What is your opinion concerning those compared to the Riviera and Sugden? Have you heard Vitus amps?
Huge and heavy Class A amps do not necessarily equate to great sound with all or even some speakers. Same with so many other Class A amps such as Luxman L-595a 30w 8 ohms weighs 64 lbs. or Pass Labs XA30.8 30w weighs 88 lbs and bigger are much heavier (and hotter). No denying that Class A amps weigh a ton (figuratively speaking) in general an d can sound fabulous too.
lol...Rationalize much? No one is here to discuss your amps, and no one called them fake,. YOU took in a direction about YOUR amps and I simply corrected you. Westminster is NOT pure Class A, and beyond that I don't care what it is. I am only pointing out what it is not.
To get back on track, I'd happy choose Vitus over Westminster and yes I've heard them. Go enjoy your amps as long as you like them thats all that matters, just don't try and pawn them off as something they are not.
This skids929 has an attitude. I certainly did not try to "pawn" my amps off on anyone. I didn't state it's the best and gave a clear example of another well known audiophile, Greg Weaver, who has experienced another better amp that is much bigger, heavier, pricier and more powerful than the REIs. Also, I haven't heard many Class A solid state amps. Class A or not, the REIs are incredibly impressive on my Von Schweikert VR9 SE Mk2 upgraded.
The Riviera AFM100 Special Edition for example is $75,000, 77lbs 2X1X1 ft (relatively small) each pure Class A zero feedback received a great review and has the same power 100w 8ohms as REIs. Only the price is double the REIs (as well as skids929 opinion concerning the REI Class A which maybe true or not). Did he hear the REIs, Riviera and Sugden on the same or a variety of speakers?
P.S. I heard the Vitus Class A at 50 watts and it wasn't adequate for the big speakers. Reportedly, it should have been switched to the 150 watt A/B mode for them.
Indeed , the weight and size and for that matter the cost don't often correlate to the quality of the sound, however the classic (DR3, ML2) amps that I have mentioned have been the first of their true Class-A kind and a sort of a reference by which other amps have been measured. Sonically, properly maintained DR3 and ML2 with suitable speakers can compete, or better ANY modern amps at any price. Pass Labs in my book never been that good, however that is irrelevant. The flagship Gryphon amps in true Class A are however superlative. Most systems I ve heard at recent shows that featured the Vitus amps sounded superb as well.
I have a unique redesigned Dynaco ST70 35 watt Class A/b amp that also exhibits gorgeous sound (although not the resolution but deep bass that no other Dynaco 70 has) on 96 db speakers in my living room system. My friends and I have found that lower powered amps generally sound more musically interesting than high powered amps. Your two Class A solid state amps are good examples as are Class A/B McIntosh 30,. 225 and 240 and so many 25 to 35 watt 1960s solid state receivers compared to their higher powered products. Pass Labs amps are okay but I'd rather use my Dynaco (NOS Mullard EL34s).
With all due respect you need to brush up on history...It was JE Sugden who first produced the first Pure Class A circuit after taking issue with all the distortion problems that plagued the patented Class B circuits at the time (1930s-40s). All the amps you mentioned, including ALL of Pass labs amplifier deisgns came AFTER the A21 that Sugden designed.Sugden and maybe some other unknowns are the reference, not Classe, not Levinson.
With that said, most of the amps today claiming to be Class A, are nothing more than biased designs or some new fangled circuit with some creative marketing around it. At the end of the day it's what sounds good to you, but a biased design is not pure Class A, and although there are plenty that sound great, there are very few that have the sound of true Class A design. For all the faults mentioned about size/heat (and who really cares that they are big and hot, some speakers need a damn crane to get into your home), good hifi is big and hot. That is just a fact.
I have never meant these were the first true class A amplifiers ever created, however the ML2 and the DR2, DR3 were the first commercially successful amplifiers that have made a lasting mark in the high end, at least within the US hi fi scene. That is what I ve meant. I have liked and admired the Sugden amps, however none ever made any similar lasting impact even remotely close to the aforementioned amps have.
I have never mentioned Pass Labs amps in the same context as the ML2 or the DR 3. Quite the contrary, if you read my comments above carefully.
However, not wanting to highjack the Vitus amps discussion I ll gladly exchange opinions on the matter in proper section within these forums , if there are such
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One of our local stereo club members had the "Stern/Heisenberg combo" that he paired with his Zellaton Stage speakers. The Zellatons are an excellent speaker - btw. The Audionet combo, not so much - to our groups ears. We found them falling short of their touted attributes. The member in question bought the CH M10 & L10 combo to replace his Audionet electronics, which has render a significant improvement in performance across the audio and enjoyment spectrums. By comparison the Audionoet gear sounds flat, artificially precise (e.g. brittle) and un-engaging.
My point is, there is a lot of hype-over-reality when it comes to some manufacturer's claims and the cult-like take up by their product buyers. One thing this hobby has taught us - there's no straight line correlation between price and perfection. So called "strata" should be solely performance based. Cost of membership considerations should be secondary at best.
I prefer real-world and real-system feedback from informed and passionate owners over the magazine-chaser and purveyor crowds. That's why I like WBF member feedback - for the most part. On occasion, the curmudgeonly antagonists weigh-in making bold and unfounded assertions under the guise of feigned expertise. That element has overtaken forums on most of the other mainstream audio-chat sites causing the more thoughtful, respectful and sincerely informed contributors to seek the comfort and civility of WBF.
As a retired general counsel of a multi-billion dollar corporation, I admired and recognized Treitz3's prudent and strategic refereeing to distance WBF from any guilt-by-association defamation exposure. Well done!
That brings me to the statement; "your Amps are NOT Class A amps..." in the context of Westminster Labs. As with Class B, AB, C, D and E amplifiers, there are many ways to skin the Class A cat (my apologizes to cat owners). The first step in the evolution of Class A amplification was replacing SET tubes with output stage transistors biased for Class-A operation. The latest evolutionary step developed by, Angus Leung, is the development of the "iBIAS" circuit, which "permits real-time bias adjustment and optimization depending on the amplifier’s load and input signal level." In both a conventional biased circuit and Leung's redesign, 100% of the input signal is used and a single output device/circuit manages both sides of the waveform. So, in my books it qualifies as Class A.
True, Leung's latest amplifier doesn't compete in the same weight class as a 1956 Buick. Apparently (and I say apparently, because I don't own the Rei), it doesn't double as a breakfast skillet on a gas stove either. However, those attributes don't define whether or not WestminsterLab's Rei is a Class A amplifier. According to a couple of voices in this post, a really good Class A amplifier should have the ability to "burn a GD hole in your floor" and "weigh a ton" (figuratively). One of our other audio club members has a few stereo systems, including one with a Gryphon Essence stereo amp driving Joesph Graphene Audio Pearls. It delivers 55W/side into an 8 ohm load in pure Class A.
Now, here's the surprise for me (beyond its meat-on-the-tomahawk delivery), that Gryphon Class A runs warm to the touch on the top of the case. So, at the cost of rattling the cages of the doubting curmudgeons, it sounds wonderful even though the Essence weighs 57Kg vs. 32Kg for both Rei monos.
I'm grateful for innovation in audio and I admire inventors and designers who question and challenge conventional parameters. Otherwise, I would be listening to my old JBL speakers driven by a Lloyds 8-track stereo. Thank you as well to my WBF colleagues who are willing to venture into uncharted territory and embrace and share your new experiences. Kudos my friends!
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