Vicoustic Multifuser 64 compared to the RPG Skylines, any opinions?

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
Don't think the skylines look bad at all, they look like abstract art, nice "eyesight" diffusers as well as sound.

+1 and to me it break the smoothness of the surfaces with an interesting abstraction ... Mike look at it again especially on the pictures you sent us.. From the side .. They look like an abstract piece of Art ... I am with Carl here ... decisions is yours .. d
 

dallasjustice

Member Sponsor
Apr 12, 2011
2,067
8
0
Dallas, Texas
I would deal with the first reflection first. The RPG is only like 4 or 5"'deep so it's only dealing with higher frequency sound. There's very little HF primary reflections off that wall. If you are noticing improved image with the RPG there, then i bet it would be even better if there was better diffusion on the wall behind the seated position.
 

stevekale

New Member
Aug 8, 2012
83
0
0
I'm intrigued with your choice of side diffuser versus something more along the lines of a Skyline or the Vicoustic wood equivalent and why it is set so far back relative to your speakers - any thoughts there?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,366
4,410
I'm intrigued with your choice of side diffuser versus something more along the lines of a Skyline or the Vicoustic wood equivalent and why it is set so far back relative to your speakers - any thoughts there?

answered here;

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...s-any-opinions&p=140572&viewfull=1#post140572

and here;

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...s-any-opinions&p=140643&viewfull=1#post140643

there is no Vicoustic 'wood equivilant' to the Skylines; which was the actual question i posed to start this thread. there is the Vicoustic Multifusor Wood 64 which my initial post references. but those are quite different from the Skylines. they have a similar look, but don't have as many cells, or as sharp corners, or as deep and since they are wood, they are much more absorbtive than the Skylines. the Skylines are very close to neutral acoustically, the wood diffusors not so much.
 
Last edited:

stevekale

New Member
Aug 8, 2012
83
0
0
Sorry, I was talking loosely when I said "equivalent". I am wondering about the differences between diffusers of the nature of RPG Skyline product or Multifusor which would appear visually to be much more diffusive than the Auralex product and what led to your choice - any particular factor? Also, it appeared to me that the Auralex products were placed well back versus any first reflection point from the speakers whereas your other diffusers are right up in line with the seating position (maybe it just appears that way in the photos). I hope my post didn't come across the wrong way - I'm just trying to learn from other people's setups.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,366
4,410
Sorry, I was talking loosely when I said "equivalent". I am wondering about the differences between diffusers of the nature of RPG Skyline product or Multifusor which would appear visually to be much more diffusive than the Auralex product and what led to your choice - any particular factor? Also, it appeared to me that the Auralex products were placed well back versus any first reflection point from the speakers whereas your other diffusers are right up in line with the seating position (maybe it just appears that way in the photos). I hope my post didn't come across the wrong way - I'm just trying to learn from other people's setups.

no problem with your post at all, sorry if my answer seemed too strongly worded. i appreciate your question.

it might help to understand that the design philosophy of my room is to retain musical energy, like a concert hall. it's oval shaped, the front floor is hardwood like a stage, and there are built-in diffusive elements everywhere. the side and rear media shelves are diffusive, those slanted panels in the ceiling above the listening area reflect energy back down into the room, yet eliminate ceiling first reflections......the built-in mid-room diffusers eliminate standing waves and flutter echo for the listener.

the Auralex T-Fusors are a later edition to the room. where you see those on the front side-walls and ceiling wells there had been large fabric covered bass traps which i had removed 2 years ago. i had huge 15 foot long and 18" deep bass traps built in at both front corners of the room. if you look at the 2nd picture in post #11 of this thread, that is an early picture where you can see the fabric covered bass traps. the bass in the room was overdamped and all that fabric was robbing the high frequencies too. so i removed the traps and installed Quietrock 545 THX wallboard panels and then 3/4" finish grade plywood over them. the Quietrock 545THX is 1 and 3/8th inch thick and has a 1/4" layer of aluminium in it and really establishes a strong room boundary and mass compared to any other product. this gave me the bass solidity i had been missing. i also installed that in the front and rear ceiling wells where i also had that fabric covering. once i did that those large flat areas did create some fluttler echo and loss of focus. none of these areas were first reflection points, but they needed some mild diffusion to tame them but i wanted to avoid any sort of dampning because i did not want a tonal shift. the Auralex T-Fusors were an inexpensive easy way to accomplish that.

so all the T-Fusors do is to control slap echo for better overall musical focus while maintaining maximum musical energy. i look at the T-Fusors as a mild type of diffusion product. they are not designed for first reflection points. i use the T-Fusors 'nude' with no absorbtive material inside so they don't remove 'body'. the T-Fusors can be filled with material and contribute absorbtion when desired. i see my mid-room built in diffusors as meduim and since they have mass they also do some absorbtion of lower frequencies. then the Skylines are a very strong mid and high frequency diffusor which is precise in how it reflects and is ideal for first reflection points on close sidewalls, ceilings or back walls behind speakers (where i have them).

the front triple Skyline stack was another later addition which had to do with improving center image, depth and focus over the orignally designed in large rounded diffusor you can see behind the Skylines.

i wrote an article 8 years ago about my room building process which you may find interesting reading which goes into more detail about how my room was designed. back then i saw that process as an ending point. i now view it more as a starting point. it took me 6 more years after building the room to finally get it all to work right. but isn't life always that way?
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
7,097
412
1,210
Northern NY
I have to say after installing the skylines on my front wall center behind my amps, I am hearing a dramatic improvement in soundstage depth, ambience and clarity/focus of the image. I was a bit skeptical that they could make that dramatic an improvement...I ordered two more to make a 4x4 vs the vertical 2x4 config I installed last night.

Interesting that the skylines are no longer on the RPG site...are they discontinued ?
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
there is no Vicoustic 'wood equivilant' to the Skylines; which was the actual question i posed to start this thread. there is the Vicoustic Multifusor Wood 64 which my initial post references. but those are quite different from the Skylines. they have a similar look, but don't have as many cells, or as sharp corners, or as deep and since they are wood, they are much more absorbtive than the Skylines. the Skylines are very close to neutral acoustically, the wood diffusors not so much.

Mike,
Did you try a RPG Diffractal in place of the Skylines? Although expensive, I have found that it is the best diffuser in my room - for my particular application much better than the Skylines. Both the QRD and the Diffractal have much lower absorption that the Omnifuser.
 

stevekale

New Member
Aug 8, 2012
83
0
0
And another question from me...are those Podium isolation plinths underneath your amps? Do you find them worthwhile?

(As I move into a new room I am finding I don't have room for the wooden table/drawers (lowboy) I had laid my equipment out on and I'm looking at racks. I'm rather shocked at the cost of high-end isolation racks...)
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,366
4,410
I have to say after installing the skylines on my front wall center behind my amps, I am hearing a dramatic improvement in soundstage depth, ambience and clarity/focus of the image. I was a bit skeptical that they could make that dramatic an improvement...I ordered two more to make a 4x4 vs the vertical 2x4 config I installed last night.

Interesting that the skylines are no longer on the RPG site...are they discontinued ?

the Skylines appear to only be marketed thru 3rd party sources, not from the RPG site, i noticed that too. i cannot say why. maybe they are discontinued due to a patent conflict? but i still see them on third party sites.

i would be cautious about assuming that more Skylines are better than less, especially in the center wall between your speakers. i did lots of experimenting myself. i tried the 4' x 4' configuration and it made things ghosty and disjointed, it pulled it apart. i also tried 4 (8' tall) of them stacked; and i then covered this stack in 6 inch increments to find the best, most focused sound. the 4 stacked 'stretched' the center image and lacked realism. i ended up with the triple stack you see.....2' x 6' keeping the configuration of each 2' x 2' Skyline the same.

the Skyline is a very precise tool and cannot be indiscriminently used in first reflection points as it seems to push the sound around. it must be tuned to the spot. if you use them as general diffusion in non first reflection points probably no problem, but that is why i choose the Auralex T-Fusors for my other add-on slap-echo reduction choice.....it is a much less focused product with only mild diffusion. horses for courses and all that.

i would guess that for you 2 or 3 Skyline panels stacked would end up working best between your speakers.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,366
4,410
Mike,
Did you try a RPG Diffractal in place of the Skylines? Although expensive, I have found that it is the best diffuser in my room - for my particular application much better than the Skylines. Both the QRD and the Diffractal have much lower absorption that the Omnifuser.

i did not try the RPG Diffractal in place of the Skylines. it's made of wood and my guess will cause a tonal shift to some degree. i think the Skyline is the most precise diffusion, with the least absorbtion, that i'm aware of. and my Skylines are actually DIY and have sharper corners than the RPG version. they are not moulded, they are lengths of stiff foam cut to length.

i already have that curved diffuser behind my skylines so i only needed some center focus. and the Diffractal needs a wider surface to mount to than the 26" wide panel my Skylines are mounted to. i don't think the Diffractal works in a 2' wide application. of course, unless i tried the Diffractal i can only guess about the result. i'm very happy with the result so have left 'well enough' alone so far.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,366
4,410
And another question from me...are those Podium isolation plinths underneath your amps? Do you find them worthwhile?

(As I move into a new room I am finding I don't have room for the wooden table/drawers (lowboy) I had laid my equipment out on and I'm looking at racks. I'm rather shocked at the cost of high-end isolation racks...)

my amp stand is the Box Furniture amp stand in Sapele wood.

i use Wave Kinetics A10-U8 footers (6 of them) under the amp for decoupling. i've found that footers perform better than isolation shelves and stands and are much more adjustable to changing gear and configurations as well as more cost effective. so i use grounded racks and amp stands such as the Box Furniture and the Adona.....and tune each piece of gear with decoupling footers.

get an Adona rack (around $2500-$3000 for very high quality) and then get good decoupling footers instead of dropping $10k for a rack. you will thank yourself and have equal or better performance.

i sold all my Grand Prix Audio racks which i loved for more than $10k used and went this other direction and have not looked back.
 
Last edited:

stevekale

New Member
Aug 8, 2012
83
0
0
Thanks. I'm struggling to find something sensible/attractive in the UK. I have found these two products (one measurably more expensive than the other):

http://www.audiophilebase.com/ (you buy the modular rack and choose a base for each shelf) pricing

Hi Fi Racks and Hi Fi Racks Plinth

I've read the threads elsewhere here on decoupling. My Eggworks speakers have spikes and I've used very simple cups (I don't recall the brand) under the spikes. My Krell FPB-200 has always simply sat on the floor and will now be sitting on brickwork (an old fireplace). I'm surprised placing an amp on a plinth makes much difference. As to the rack, I'm struggling. The Audiophile product looks good and is meant to be superb but ouch. (I need to house a Theta Casablanca III HD, an Oppo universal player, perhaps a Bryston BDP-1 (tbd purchase), 2 x Krell KAV300i power amps and an ugly (by comparison) new cable box.)
 

The Bogg

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2010
36
0
311
i'm using 3 stacked RPG Skylines as my center diffuser. they are actually DIY versions made of foam, and painted. they sound wonderful. but i would prefer that they were made of wood.

View attachment 5967

i have stumbled across a product that is made of wood and looks to not be cost prohibitive and would attach to the same place as my Skylines. it is the Vicoustic Multifusor Wood 64

i'm considering buying three of these panels and substituting them for my Skylines and see of they are close enough to get the same job done and improve the look.

i would appreciate any opinions on how the performance of these 2 products (Skylines and the Multifusor Wood 64) might compare. if they do radically different things then it's probably not worth the time and effort to try it.

Hi Mike,

the room looks much better with the modified structure (I just came across this thread not realizing you changed the initial design a couple of years ago) and presumably sounds "better".

I had spoken with you about 5 years ago when I started my own Rives Level 3 build (the only 1 in Canada, at least at the time). I was wondering how to make changes to the room b/c it is definitely too "dead". I had Adam Pelz come up to see about modifying the room but he was able to get good results by integrating a pair of subs with my mains. Since then I added a Trinnov ST2 room correction unit and the performance improved significantly.
I'm still toying with making some changes like you have done but I hate the idea of trial and error, lol. I was really hoping for a "guaranteed" improvement but not sure how to get that. Oh well, maybe it will be trial and error after all.

My decay time measures 180ms which indicates a very dry room. Do you know what your decay time was before and after the changes?

Big speakers, I can't believe you're getting (or already have) even bigger ones!!!! Last time we spoke you were waiting on the big VS speakers, I guess that's changed.

Asher
 

flyer

VIP/Donor
Dec 16, 2012
423
179
1,160
Belgium
Be careful

First of all, Mr Lavigne, I followed your posts so many years ago whilst building your exceptional room and was awed with it (and still am).
Meanwhile I have done a lot of testing myself with skyline and diffusor (type http://rpginc.com/product_Modffusor.cfm and various similar ones as RPG and quite a few other brands have them).

My conclusion is the following; skylines made of a massive material (like wood or other reflective material like plaster) increase their effect compared to 'soft' ones. Another post mentioned the fact that the foam ones are better because they have higher absorption but, in my modest opinion, that is exactly what you don't want such unit to do if you think of it. Otherwise, why buy such special (expensive) forms...

What gives effect is the material, the shape of the form and the depth of it. The deeper the skyline, the more effect it has, i.e. on a wider sonic spectrum and to my experience, the bigger the room, the more depth is required and hence also the better the effect, because the effect will be more balanced.

the vicoustic would therefore have my recommendation;
1. Visually stunning to see
2. hard reflective material because you have done the absorption elsewhere in the room, so no loss of any frequency in your center focus
3. the fronts of the blocks are with varying inclination which will (and this is a guess of mine) probably make the center focus less artificially delineated, in other words more realistic.

hope this helps
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing