What you are hearing after cleaning a record with the Degritter is pretty common. At least it is for people who have a playback system capable of bringing it out. Not everybody does and when I first started I was one of those people.@Jim in Missouri and @Neil.Antin
Neil and Jim,
Thank you SO much for your time and input. It is highly appreciated.
Let me first and foremost - before getting into details - stress: I have now cleaned some 60 records with the Degritter mk ii and I must say the results are absolutely stunning. It feels like the biggest hifi upgrade ever - like both getting an entire new record collection and a completely new hifi set at the same time! The general impression is an huge improvement in 'calmness/background silence' (an effect a bit like my best japanese pressings on virgin vinyl) and the music has a huge improvement in clarity and detail. Even once a while noticing instruments and sounds that I did not hear or notice before.
I love the notion by Neil that there is no one right way. So many factors and variables and different context's. A bit about my context. I do not have the possibility to have an extra vacuum cleaner as it sounds like you have Jim. My family and I live in an apartment in Copenhagen and do not have an extra HIFI-room let alone a record cleaning room. Just to get some space for the Degritter was a challenge to my WAF-credit ;-) The records I have (and clean) are maybe 10% newly pressed albums. The majority of the albums is from my own old collection bought in the 80's and 90's and then I enjoy very much going to shops and fares buying used records. I would any day by miles prefer an original (old) pressing from reissues no matter the price.
The general condition of my records are good. Well they look pretty okay. I have noticed that many people talk about cleaning 'very dirty records'. But what is that? All my records looks relatively clean, but being 30, 40 or even 50 years old I am sure they will have a lot of dirt in the grooves (it sure sounds like it after the Degritter clean!). For the past years I have manually 'cleaned' a large part of my collection by putting some "MOFI Super Record Wash" on the records. I have absolutely no idea what it is or what it does. I just thought I cleaned the record - LOL - but now getting your comments and reading about all this cleaning I am wondering if I just put on some surfactant on without rinsing/removing it!
Anyhow: With the Degritter I use distilled water. In terms of the process described above with the Degritter I have used 5-7 puffs of the diluted Tergikleen on each side. The diluted Tergikleen was about 3-5 drops in a 1/2 liter (17 oz) of water. I am wondering if it has been way too much!? I think I was just thinking: the more the better!! From your comments I have now decided to give all the first 60 albums that I cleaned an extra clean with a fresh tank of just distilled and no surfactant. But I guess that if I have still a considerable amount of residue from the Tegikleen left on the records from the above two tank process it will still somehow pollute the water. But all equal - in a much lower pace. And I did start with my original 96' pressing of George Michael's Older
Going forward. Actually, I am really unsure what the Tergikleen and the Degritter fluid does and what it helps with!? And when to use or not use it!? I have seen and read various and it seems like there are quite different views on using surfactant (or other cleaning fluids) or not! Though, there seem to be general concensus that if one do apply surfactant it is vital to rinse the record afterwards and get rid of any residue of the surfactant (as also noted in the passage you refer to in your impressive book Neil). And for sure I will avoid using both the Tergikleen and the Degritter fluid at the same time. Thanks!
Sounds interesting with TDS meter. But, do I understand Neil's comment right that it does not measure the possible ongoing increasing levels of residue from eg. the Tergikleen?
Jim and Neil: In my case (and with the described 'context') would you a) use the Tergikleen (used like described above putting it on the record prior to taking it in the Degritter and the two tank programme) - and then maybe later giving it an extra only water clean with a fresh tank of distilled water, b) use the Degritter fluid (in the tank) or C) Not use anything but water?
I do find it extremely difficult to use a (comparable) 'ear test'!
Best regards, Søren
Yes, as @Neil.Antin mentioned, any non-ionic surfactant is invisible as far as a TDS meter is concerned. That does not mean there is no benefit to using a meter in your case. It will tell you how pure your fresh water is, will give you a way to determine when the tanks are dirty enough for you to want to change them. Every old record is different, has different levels of contamination, so if you decide "X" reading is your threshold, you will know when you reach it, regardless of the number of discs you have processed.
I believe that using any cleaning solution at the right concentration, not thinking "more is better," provides the best results, lengthens the life of the cleaning and rinsing tanks. If I read @Neil.Antin message, you are using about 2x the recommended Tergikleen concentration. Higher concentration of cleaning agents that don't 100% volatilize means more of the cleaning agent remains on the record, so more rinsing is necessary.
I certainly went through a period where I didn't understand that. Records I was very happy with initially were substantially improved once I'd rinsed them well enough to remove all cleaning solution. I'm not the only one who made this mistake and ended up re-cleaning many, many records just to get them to the same level as the ones I'd cleaned more recently.
I agree with Neil when he says if you don't pre-clean old records, you will find your tanks getting dirty faster, the filter won't last as long, and you might want to increase frequency of cleaning the Degritter with vinegar. You well may have better eyesight than mine, but I will say when I started out, I occasionally found cat hairs in the filter well, as well as some large bits that the ultrasonics knocked loose.
The Degritter can remove tar and nicotine, so if you hit a heavy smoker's old favorite, just one can impart a yellow color to the filter. A greater than normal rise in TDS after cleaning a record is a warning sign. When that happens I check the filter, change it if discolored, and in the worst cases, I dump the wash tank so I don't risk transferring the contaminants to another record.
Also if the TDS shoots up, I'm going to put the record that caused the rise through more cleaning cycles. @rDin also has found there are discs that honestly look clean, but in reality are so bad that multiple cleanings net better results.
I understand not having room for yet another machine. I'm lucky to have the space I've got (see pic). Pre-cleaning using tap water, Tergikleen in proper concentration, and a brush designed for wet cleaning records, followed by a distilled water rinse can do wonders. Just need to get a good label protector, something designed to keep the label dry even if you submerge the disc. Happy listening! - Jim
