Transparent USB cable

[flez007]

I finally upgraded from my stock (MS) USB cable to a Transparent USB, my rationale was that whatever above a stock cable would work. I have about an hour listening to it now in the system and it is a revelation!

 

[FrantzM]

I finally upgraded from my stock (MS) USB cable to a Transparent USB, my rationale was that whatever above a stock cable would work. I have about an hour listening to it now in the system and it is a revelation!

 

[Andre Marc]

You purchased from Stereo Design? How much is the USB cable?

I finally upgraded from my stock (MS) USB cable to a Transparent USB, my rationale was that whatever above a stock cable would work. I have about an hour listening to it now in the system and it is a revelation!

 

[DonH50]

Let me guess: the sound is clearer, right? (Somebody was gonna' say it!)

There are many valid reasons why a better USB cable could sound better. I strongly suspect a good $10 cable will sound better than a bad $100 cable, and that mesaurements would show why.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Let me guess: the sound is clearer, right? (Somebody was gonna' say it!)

There are many valid reasons why a better USB cable could sound better. I strongly suspect a good $10 cable will sound better than a bad $100 cable, and that mesaurements would show why.

Tell you one can "see" a big difference between HD!I cables on a TV. Just compare the crap your cable company gives you and even a better quality MC HDMI cable!

 

[RBFC]

I was told that one of the primary parameters for USB cable performance is the speed limit of the cable. Any comments?

Lee

 

[amirm]

I was told that one of the primary parameters for USB cable performance is the speed limit of the cable. Any comments?

Lee

I am sure Don can add more to this but in general, the faster the rise time, the less jitter can be induced. And faster rise time requires higher bandwidth. The challenge is that we don't know the transceivers at either end so it is hard to generalize too much here.

 

[FrantzM]

Tell you one can "see" a big difference between HD!I cables on a TV. Just compare the crap your cable company gives you and even a better quality MC HDMI cable!

I doubt that

 

[DonH50]

I am sure Don can add more to this but in general, the faster the rise time, the less jitter can be induced. And faster rise time requires higher bandwidth. The challenge is that we don't know the transceivers at either end so it is hard to generalize too much here.

Surprise, I agree with Amir. I did a comparison showing the impact of bandwidth on jitter, including eye diagrams, in a thread over in the technical forum. If bandwidth is too low, inter-symbol interference (ISI) rises and you get correlated "jitter", arguably the worst kind for signal degradation. (Note: before I get blasted for misdefinition again, ISI is not the same as jitter, but I am using the comparison because jitter sees much more widespread use in audio-speak than ISI.)

There are other factors that influence USB systems including ground returns and shielding to reduce both EMI/RFI and crosstalk among signal lines and power/ground lines. A USB interface tends to be very noisy...

 

[RBFC]

Do you see any value in USB cables (that supply signal to DACs that have separate power supplies) which have their internal power lead cut? So, there is no power passed down the USB cable during playback.

Lee

 

[flez007]

You purchased from Stereo Design? How much is the USB cable?

less then $200

 

[flez007]

Let me guess: the sound is clearer, right? (Somebody was gonna' say it!)

it sounds more vivid, extracting more music and details from the server in a non-fatiguing way.

 

[DonH50]

^ I was playing off the "Transparent" name, sorry for the bad joke!

 

[DonH50]

Do you see any value in USB cables (that supply signal to DACs that have separate power supplies) which have their internal power lead cut? So, there is no power passed down the USB cable during playback.

Lee

Well, it depends upon how noisy the supply line is, but it couldn't hurt. I am no USB expert so am not familiar with the signals. if they are differential, then shielding and tying the shield at the external DAC box (presumably the quieter point) makes sense. The PC is a very noisy place and I can see ground noise coupling corrupting the data. To what extent I could not say. If power an ground noise is significant then optical isolation would seem to be a Good Thing, assuming it breaks the ground as well.

 

[jkeny]

Do you see any value in USB cables (that supply signal to DACs that have separate power supplies) which have their internal power lead cut? So, there is no power passed down the USB cable during playback.

Lee

Yes, Lee in my experience you get two benefits from using a USB cable with no power carrying wire:
- the +5V wire when carrying seems to cause interference with & degrade the differential USB signal. I haven't measured this but my ears tell me so.
- if your USB device is USB powered, you can feed a clean, quality +5V supply to it instead of the USB 5V - again my ears tell me this is an improvement.

BTW, I started a thread here http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...r-in-the-Works&p=101177&viewfull=1#post101177 which is a suggestion to try NO USB cable. Will probably only benefit non-USB powered devices!

Edit: Others have already reported very favourably on their experiences with this no-cable USB approach. In practical terms it may not be feasible for long term configuration but as a means of establishing a benchmark & whether USB cables really sound different, it's a great experiment

 

[flez007]

^ I was playing off the "Transparent" name, sorry for the bad joke!

you got me!

 

[Lee]

I moved up from a $16 Belkin Gold usb cable to the Audioquest Diamond USB and it was not a subtle difference.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I've lost my will to live.

 

[slowGEEZR]

I've lost my will to live.

Thanks for my morning laugh.

 

[jkeny]

What might be of interest to you guys is this reply in the comments on stereophile relating to this Audioquest Diamond USB cable:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest%E2%80%99s-diamond-usb#comment-480980

The cable may or may not be snake oil, but regardless, it's not because it's "literally a bunch of ones and zero's". There are no 1's and 0's when we store, manipulate, or transmit digital data.
What there is, is some form of signal that represents 1's and 0's.
If we assume the signal is some kind of voltage, there won't be 0 voltage representing the binary zero and there won't be some other maximum voltage representing the binary 1.
A crude analogy ... if the acceptable maximum voltage on a digital transmission protocol is 800 mV, then the 1's may be represented by 600 mV and the 0's may be represented by 300 mV. A zero voltage will never be used ... everything electronic is too non-linear at the minimum and maximum (that's why we bias transistors).
A signal of 450 mV in that case would have to be accepted as one or the other binary number. Errors arrive when the signals stray too close to the threshold where one state becomes another.
If we used a true zero voltage as representing the binary 0, then certain types of noise would be interpreted as 1's. So we don't.
In practical terms, although the above is used, what is more common is the use of states. A signal is transmitted when the state changes. So a signal of some kind indicates "change from whatever state you were on (could have been a 1 state, could have been the 0 state) to the other one, and stay there until I tell you to change again." Whether its within the CPU or via a cable transmitting digital data, all this happens in a stubbornly analog world.

The point being that it is an analogue signal (which "represents" the digital bits) that is being transmitted down the USB cable & analogue signals are prone to distortion on cables, especially high-speed analogue signals.