Toppings dacs

[morricab]

Just to weigh in here — I think this discussion misses an important point about context.
Yes, compared to ultra high-end DACs costing 5–20x more, a Topping DAC might lack some of the harmonic richness, spatial layering, or "organic" texture you get from top-tier tube or R2R gear. But that doesn't justify calling it flat, grey, or compressed — unless you're completely ignoring price and value.
The reality is: Topping DACs outperform most gear in their class and even rival components at 2–3x their cost in terms of performance, transparency, and detail. They are neutral and accurate — and for many listeners, that's exactly the point.
Dismissing them because they don’t sound like a €10k Lampizator feels like comparing a well-engineered sports sedan to a Ferrari and saying the sedan is “lifeless.” It's not — it's just targeting a different use case and market. You can say a DAC lacks certain traits compared to high-end gear — but labeling it ‘flat or compressed’ ignores its actual performance and the fact that, for the price, it punches far above its weight
Appreciate both perspectives here, but let’s not lose sight of the incredible price-to-performance value these DACs offer.

You can get something like an Audio Note Kits DAC for a couple thousand that will sound more natural...just as one example. There is no need to accept this kind of sound just because it is cheap (although the top ones are now not so cheap anymore and there are similarly priced alternatives that sound better but measure "worse").

Please note, this is WBF and not Audioasylum or a forum where budget is the primary concern. If you care about your sound being natural then there is no way you can accept DACs like the Topping, sonically.

 

[audiobomber]

Topping DACs outperform most gear in their class and even rival components at 2–3x their cost in terms of performance, transparency, and detail.

I believe owners of other budget DACs like Audio-GD, SMSL, Gustard, RME, Schiit, Cambridge, Denafrips, iFi, Eversolo and more would argue with that.

 

[lordcloud]

Because it means this inherently by definition.

Something that doesn't soundstage deep or make 3D images is...well Flat
Something that lacks dynamics compared to another DAC, which is better capturing what is on the recording is by definition compressed
Something that has fewer tonal colors is by definition grey. From the Mirriam-Webster dictionary: c: dull in color

it doesn't mean the Topping is the MOST flat, the MOST compressed or the MOST grey sounding DAC, but it does fit that description compared to superior DACs.

No it doesn't.

Lacking something doesn't inherently point to an extreme.

Lacking moisture doesn't mean dry.

Lacking heat doesn't mean cold.

Ever single audio system lacks dynamics.....every single one. So are they all without dynamics? Do we call every studio system compressed? Obviously not.

 

[lordcloud]

I believe owners of other budget DACs like Audio-GD, SMSL, Gustard, RME, Schiit, Cambridge, Denafrips, Eversolo and more would argue with that.

That doesn't make it less true. You could switch any name with any name, and it would still be a true statement n

 

[morricab]

No it doesn't.

Lacking something doesn't inherently point to an extreme.

Lacking moisture doesn't mean dry.

Lacking heat doesn't mean cold.

Ever single audio system lacks dynamics.....every single one. So are they all without dynamics? Do we call every studio system compressed? Obviously not.

As I said they are probably not the flattest, greyist and most compressed DACs on earth but the are flat, greyish and compressed nonetheless.

FWIW, lacking moisture does mean dry and lacking heat does mean cold. A lack of moisture is the very definition of dry. Heat is molecular vibrations and a lack of molecular vibration is the trending towards absolute zero…

 

[lordcloud]

As I said they are probably not the flattest, greyist and most compressed DACs on earth but the are flat, greyish and compressed nonetheless.

FWIW, lacking moisture does mean dry and lacking heat does mean cold. A lack of moisture is the very definition of dry. Heat is molecular vibrations and a lack of molecular vibration is the trending towards absolute zero…

Dry means lack of moisture. Not lacking moisture. Lacking moisture is not at all the definition of dry. Lack of and lacking are two very different things.

Lack of molecular vibrations isn't the same as a lower speed or amount of molecular vibrations.

Again...lack of means absence. As in none. Lacking means a lesser amount of. They aren't the same.

 

[morricab]

Dry means lack of moisture. Not lacking moisture. Lacking moisture is not at all the definition of dry. Lack of and lacking are two very different things.

Lack of molecular vibrations isn't the same as a lower speed or amount of molecular vibrations.

Again...lack of means absence. As in none. Lacking means a lesser amount of. They aren't the same.

Sorry Lordcloud, the dictionary doesn't really agree with you: Lack and lacking are essentially one and the same (note the definitions below from Merriam-Webster show the definition to be identical). Lack can also be deficient, not just absent.

Definition of LACKING

to be deficient or missing; to be short or have need of something; to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

lack​

1 of 2

verb​

ˈlak

lacked; lacking; lacks
Synonyms of lack
intransitive verb
1
: to be deficient or missing
time is lacking for a full explanation


2
: to be short or have need of something
he will not lack for advisers

The area does not lack for good restaurants.


transitive verb
: to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of
lack the necessities of life

She lacked confidence.

lack
2 of 2

noun​

1
: the fact or state of being wanting or deficient
a lack of evidence


2
: something that is lacking or is needed




lacking
/ˈlakɪŋ/

adjective

1. not available or in short supply.
   "adequate resources are sadly lacking"
   • (of a quality) absent.
     "there was something lacking in our marriage"

So, the Topping DACs are lacking or they have a lack of tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality... as in they are deficient in these areas compared to better DACs...and to real life sounds.

 

[lordcloud]

Sorry Lordcloud, the dictionary doesn't really agree with you: Lack and lacking are essentially one and the same (note the definitions below from Merriam-Webster show the definition to be identical). Lack can also be deficient, not just absent.

Definition of LACKING

to be deficient or missing; to be short or have need of something; to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

lack​

1 of 2

verb​

ˈlak

lacked; lacking; lacks
Synonyms of lack
intransitive verb
1
: to be deficient or missing
time is lacking for a full explanation


2
: to be short or have need of something
he will not lack for advisers

The area does not lack for good restaurants.


transitive verb
: to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of
lack the necessities of life

She lacked confidence.

lack
2 of 2

noun​

1
: the fact or state of being wanting or deficient
a lack of evidence


2
: something that is lacking or is needed




lacking
/ˈlakɪŋ/

adjective

1. not available or in short supply.
   "adequate resources are sadly lacking"
   • (of a quality) absent.
     "there was something lacking in our marriage"

So, the Topping DACs are lacking or they have a lack of tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality... as in they are deficient in these areas compared to better DACs...and to real life sounds.

If you would like to tell yourself that a DAC that is lacking in tonality means there's none or that a DAC that's lacking in soundstage depth means that there is none....you go right ahead. Lol

As someone that knows better. I won't.

 

[Billgates307]

Sorry Lordcloud, the dictionary doesn't really agree with you: Lack and lacking are essentially one and the same (note the definitions below from Merriam-Webster show the definition to be identical). Lack can also be deficient, not just absent.

Definition of LACKING

to be deficient or missing; to be short or have need of something; to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

lack​

1 of 2

verb​

ˈlak

lacked; lacking; lacks
Synonyms of lack
intransitive verb
1
: to be deficient or missing
time is lacking for a full explanation


2
: to be short or have need of something
he will not lack for advisers

The area does not lack for good restaurants.


transitive verb
: to stand in need of : suffer from the absence or deficiency of
lack the necessities of life

She lacked confidence.

lack
2 of 2

noun​

1
: the fact or state of being wanting or deficient
a lack of evidence


2
: something that is lacking or is needed




lacking
/ˈlakɪŋ/

adjective

1. not available or in short supply.
   "adequate resources are sadly lacking"
   • (of a quality) absent.
     "there was something lacking in our marriage"

So, the Topping DACs are lacking or they have a lack of tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality... as in they are deficient in these areas compared to better DACs...and to real life sounds.

So then, an Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC ref II is lacking tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality compared to real life sounds. Because for now it is impossible for any audio equipment to create sound like real life. So to use your own words; an $30000 dac, the Aries Cerat Kassandra, sounds flat, greyish and compressed oposed to real life music. Yes?

I use the AC as an example, because I see you are affiliated with this manufacturer.

 

[morricab]

So then, an Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC ref II is lacking tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality compared to real life sounds. Because for now it is impossible for any audio equipment to create sound like real life. So to use your own words; an $30000 dac, the Aries Cerat Kassandra, sounds flat, greyish and compressed oposed to real life music. Yes?

I use the AC as an example, because I see you are affiliated with this manufacturer.

Compared to real life, all equipment is lacking. That is the absolute comparison. Compared to other DACs, no it's not lacking...

 

[lordcloud]

So then, an Aries Cerat Kassandra DAC ref II is lacking tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality compared to real life sounds. Because for now it is impossible for any audio equipment to create sound like real life. So to use your own words; an $30000 dac, the Aries Cerat Kassandra, sounds flat, greyish and compressed oposed to real life music. Yes?

I use the AC as an example, because I see you are affiliated with this manufacturer.

According to him, it is flat, gray, and compressed....as only the most dimensional, tonally expressive, and dynamic dacs aren't.

 

[italia]

Some words are absolutes. Black or white. Yin or Yang.

Other words suggest a grey area. Gradations of meaning.

While I am not an authority on languages, I prefer grey speaking, as it befits the very nature of high end audio, a pastime that exists for incremental gains.

And I have long believed the saying about those who speak in absolutes. If you're new to the phrase, it's "he is a fool who speaks in absolutes" (Obi-Wan Kenobi).

 

[Billgates307]

Compared to real life, all equipment is lacking. That is the absolute comparison. Compared to other DACs, no it's not lacking...

Then we agree, all dac’s are lacking tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality. The Topping sounds less lacking then other dac’s and the Kassandra even more less. Thank you.

 

[morricab]

Then we agree, all dac’s are lacking tone color, dynamics and soundstage/image dimensionality. The Topping sounds less lacking then other dac’s and the Kassandra even more less. Thank you.

I guess where we depart is that I find the Toooing DACs lacking more than most DACs .

 

[lordcloud]

I guess where we depart is that I find the Toooing DACs lacking more than most DACs .

Which ones have you tried?

I wouldn't say they lack more than most. But they do lack compared to some.

 

[flowcharts]

FWIW my statement was made to express disappointment with the products. At least for me, expectations of a product always have some correlation to the price paid. As others have pointed out there are plenty of options in the sub $1k range.

 

[Holmz]

Because it means this inherently by definition.

Something that doesn't soundstage deep or make 3D images is...well Flat
Something that lacks dynamics compared to another DAC, which is better capturing what is on the recording is by definition compressed
Something that has fewer tonal colors is by definition grey. From the Mirriam-Webster dictionary: c: dull in color

it doesn't mean the Topping is the MOST flat, the MOST compressed or the MOST grey sounding DAC, but it does fit that description compared to superior DACs.

While I liked the post, I’ll throw out a contrarian position.

If we suppose that the Topping was perfect, then the other dacs with…
- more colour might be deemed to be over saturated
- more dynamic might be deemed to be over dynamic
- more depth of sound stage might be deemed to be unrealistically deep.

And hence at least some of the depth being discussed seems to be depth in levels of BS.

 

[morricab]

While I liked the post, I’ll throw out a contrarian position.

If we suppose that the Topping was perfect, then the other dacs with…
- more colour might be deemed to be over saturated
- more dynamic might be deemed to be over dynamic
- more depth of sound stage might be deemed to be unrealistically deep.

And hence at least some of the depth being discussed seems to be depth in levels of BS.

Luckily, we have a real reference that tells us that this is unlikely to be the case.

 

[hopkins]

While I liked the post, I’ll throw out a contrarian position.

If we suppose that the Topping was perfect, then the other dacs with…
- more colour might be deemed to be over saturated
- more dynamic might be deemed to be over dynamic
- more depth of sound stage might be deemed to be unrealistically deep.

And hence at least some of the depth being discussed seems to be depth in levels of BS.

The Topping/Purifi combo I tested was clearly inferior to my regular equipment. Arguing about the terminology to describe the differences is not going to change my assessment. Why are you even arguing about this? Do you own shares of Topping? Are you trying to convince yourself that it is the best there is?

 

[Alrainbow]

For anyone who says it's shit lol , it's not but less expensive digital needs more setup then more expensive digital .
Regarding image , with , hight and depth. It's does all of this verywell .
I have test CD s and what's explained is what's heard .
One track is a cowbell left side and rattle . Starts at bottom and goes up .
My diva do this well. Not perfect as he announces it's movement it's not smooth but as it goes up yes it does so like it does .
Same for variety of test tracks used .
Where a cheaper digital source may lack is much more effort to get what's needed.
Again my observations .
I said I feel we need to use volume controls to get good one , each track played may need a slight adjustment to get best tone if serious listening the goal . Does anyone here notice most any given album track be it vinyl or digital varies enough for us to notice . If anyone says it doesn't then I feel this is not true then I think there setup needs attention.
Now I'm not saying a 2k dac out performs a much more expensive one . But if you use adjustable parameters you get much closer .
Now some expensive dacs I don't like there sound but still may out perform cheaper dacs .
My two cents .