like you say we have gone round and round on this already.......don't want to pollute Todd's thread with more of it.
Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time
- Thread starter sbnx
- Start date
I think I can point a few things out here. Some of them I had mentioned before. First, Angie is a dealer with two very high end digital systems -- DCS APEX and WADAX Reference. One obviously need to go in each system. So she chose. Second, I can almost guarentee that Angie listens to the Avantgarde system more becasue that is really where her passion is. If you watched the Thomas & Stereo video just look how lived in that room with the Avantgarde's looks. Angie is a much bigger fan of vinyl than digital. Again, reference the video and see how much time she spends describing different stuff. With the DCS she was like "and this is the DCS APEX". Then when she gets to the Analog rig things slows down and starts describing every little piece and talking about adding tone arms etc. etc. So my point is do you really think she is listening to the DCS in that room?
I listened to that exact system -- DCS + VAC Master + Avantgarde Trios. I did not find anything offensive about the sound. It was nice. I have said before that they had literally just moved the speaker into the room the afternoon before I showed up at 10:00am the next morning. Jerome did not have sufficient time to really get them dialed in. They did sound better thatn I heard at Axpona but still lacking what I think a great speaker delivers. That was certainly not the fault of the speaker nor the DAC nor the preamp or anything else except the time needed to get everything working together.
I don't have any agenda here with regard to which digital rig to get or digital vs. analog etc. We each listend to various offerings and decide to buy what we can afford that makes our music sound better. I can say that putting the Reference Server in my system was a much, much bigger impact than I thought is was going to be. Like most I have changed DACs and other digital components and experienced the better this or that. But nothing could have prepared me for how transformative the server was. It is in some ways bigger than going from a streaming music from a stock laptop to an dedicated audiophile server like the K50. Mike liked it better than the "Extreme". But I guess others may not like it. I don't know. But I would advise don't listen to it in your system unless you are prepared to buy it.
All of the above was before I played with the three little knobs. Those things are huge in terms of musical impact. And I have not even really got to tweak them much. Just gross movements of all three knobs to get a sense of what they do. No other server/streamer that I know of has this kind of technology.
Hello Carlos,
The videos are posted the same day I shoot them. Typically within the same hour. The system with the videos you showed did not have the Wadax. I have not shot any videos with the wadax yet. It is still breaking in. The videos did have Agento FMR power cords on the iTron and Spacehorn which were about a week old in my system and the dealer had burned them in for about a month. They are still changing some but starting to settle down.
Stirling came for a one day visit back in August (I think). I asked him if he could work with me on integrating the spacehorn. I talked about this at length in one of the previous posts. So you can cross reference that if you want to go back. He did an amzing job of both helping me get the spacehorn integrated and teaching me what to listen for and how that correlates to movements of the spacehorn.
The right speaker is still not integrated at all. I know you and others might find this shocking. I spent time initally and found a very good spot for the left speaker and got it integrated with the room and with itself. I went over some of this in the early videos. I needed the spacehorn integration and was stuggling with that so I called Striling.
From here I can very easily evaluate changes of cables or gear or tweaks or whatever. I find the right speaker to be a total distraction in this regard. A few people have visited with the system like this and it is hard for them to adjust but I tell them to just focus on the "SOUND" that the left speaker is making. Is it quiet, is it dynamic, is it smooth, is it offensive in any way, does it sound real, is it "rich" (Ha Ha). The right speaker should be a perfect mirror image of the left. So, in a sense, the system will never sound better than that of just the left speaker.
Lots of people want to talk about soundstage and imaging. That stuff just comes along for the ride. To me soundstage comes down to noise floor and imaging is nothing more than how precisely you have the speakers integrated with theirself, the room and each other. This stuff is nice and does add to the enjoyment of the musical event. But it is not something I would use to judge the impact of a change to the system.
To clarify, the right speaker/spacehorn is playing. It is just turned and detuned such that it only pressurizes that side of the room. However, many would likely be surprisedat how much of what we call soundstage actually exists when the left speaker is correctly placed and integrated. Perhaps @divertiti can give some testimony of this fact.
So why leave the left speaker only position for so long. That is because most of the major changes in the system will require tweaking the speaker position anyway. Certainly the Wadax is going to require a subtantial tweak to position. So why set everything up just to have to change it again and again in such a short period of time. I am building the system and then when all is done (see above post about system progress) I will reposition/integrate the left and then mirror the right.
I have no problems asking Striling to come help again and I will. This will likely be a several day activity sometime in late January. Don't worry, I will record some more videos for you all to digest/disect. Although I still don't believe videos do any system much justice.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Congratulations Todd,
Wadax is a product that truly needs to be experienced. I don’t understand the drive bus and the haters tgat try to judge things in a room, system and even music they don’t know. I find this strange. We had great sound at Capfest this year so it can’t be the Wadax or the Gobel it has to be the amps. Perhaps it’s all of the above and a lot of work and a team that got it done.
Systems are hard work Period!
To you and Mike the Reference Power Supply and Akasa DC cables make a difference, a significant difference.
Adjusting the controls on the server can really help disl in audio nirvana . These things make great things happen in an “oligarch “ system haha
Wadax may be hated but not by any of its owners
Wadax is a product that truly needs to be experienced. I don’t understand the drive bus and the haters tgat try to judge things in a room, system and even music they don’t know. I find this strange. We had great sound at Capfest this year so it can’t be the Wadax or the Gobel it has to be the amps. Perhaps it’s all of the above and a lot of work and a team that got it done.
Systems are hard work Period!
To you and Mike the Reference Power Supply and Akasa DC cables make a difference, a significant difference.
Adjusting the controls on the server can really help disl in audio nirvana . These things make great things happen in an “oligarch “ system haha
Wadax may be hated but not by any of its owners
Todd thanks for the detailed account of the current status of your system and of what lies ahead. You are correct, I’m very surprised that the set-up has not been sorted out yet. I’m a one-man-show when it comes to my systems set-ups and have a process to set-up and dial in my speakers on short order. My new reference horn system is a 6-way system and it took longer to fine tune because of the different drivers, crossovers, and amplifiers involved but after a few weeks I think that I have it where I want it. I will follow your journey and will wait to hear what all the effort and money turns out. From an observer’s point of view you are making many expensive changes and it is unclear what the drivers for these changes are considering that the system is not yet stable and has not been analyzed & critically evaluated. It is obvious that we all go about things with a different methodology. Good luck, looking forward to hearing the results, when you are done.
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I have enjoyed two opportunities in the past few months to experience Wadax. The first at Robert Harley, and the second at the CAF show in Elliot's Gobel suite. While I preferred the vinyl at RH's played back via the Basis Transcendence/Superarm 12/Air Tight Supreme combo, I thought the digital playback in Elliot's room with Brandon Lauer playing his personally selected tunes was well....... transcendent!
In the here and now Wadax and their companion server, as well as the Lampizator Horizon/fully tricked out Taiko Supreme are top my digital playback recommendations. Mike, I do want to get up to your place for a listen. Elliot, I'll be keen to see if Wadax can trickle the technology down to something in the $75-100k range for us mere mortals
I should mention Angi Lissi of American Sound is the most passionate audio promoter in the business. After not seeing her since the early 2000's we reunited at CAF 2022 and while we were both older and grayer none of Angie's infectious passion for all things audio was diminished. Anyone who finds themself in Toronto should not miss the opportunity to visit her amazing showroom as it is a literal audio show in itself.
I have enjoyed two opportunities in the past few months to experience Wadax. The first at Robert Harley, and the second at the CAF show in Elliot's Gobel suite. While I preferred the vinyl at RH's played back via the Basis Transcendence/Superarm 12/Air Tight Supreme combo, I thought the digital playback in Elliot's room with Brandon Lauer playing his personally selected tunes was well....... transcendent!
In the here and now Wadax and their companion server, as well as the Lampizator Horizon/fully tricked out Taiko Supreme are top my digital playback recommendations. Mike, I do want to get up to your place for a listen. Elliot, I'll be keen to see if Wadax can trickle the technology down to something in the $75-100k range for us mere mortals
I should mention Angi Lissi of American Sound is the most passionate audio promoter in the business. After not seeing her since the early 2000's we reunited at CAF 2022 and while we were both older and grayer none of Angie's infectious passion for all things audio was diminished. Anyone who finds themself in Toronto should not miss the opportunity to visit her amazing showroom as it is a literal audio show in itself.
Have you had an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC200 with DSD512 or DSD1024 from HQPLAYER? The answer to this would provide some perspective into your level of experience with the current state of the art in digital playback.
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Carlos, only briefly in Munich under show conditions on unfamiliar speakers.
This is what the hardcore fringe of the hobby is listening to. It takes a little more effort to setup and optimize but once you listen to it, it becomes evident that it is beyond what turnkey solutions currently offer. Worth investigating if you are interested in what’s possible with digital playback.
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"State of the art" is the last thing people listen to?
Glowing review of the T+A by Chris Connaker:
T+A DAC 200 D/A Converter Review
T+A has set the bar extremely high with the DAC 200. This DAC is one for the ages. It sounds fantastic, looks classic, functions seamlessly, is well supported, and is priced competitively. Based on my listening habits and experience with more DACs than I can remember, this would be my number one ...
audiophilestyle.com
But less than a year later...
dCS Rossini APEX DAC Review
Audio: Listen to this article. When a product upgrade is released, I often don't read the marketing materials or even seek to find the differences between the versions. I also do my best to avoid conversations about the upgrade with friends. This is the only way I can objectively evaluate the upg...
audiophilestyle.com
"The Rossini Apex enabled me to sit in my listening chair and block out the world, while it brought the music to me on a silver platter. ?... ?The Rossini Apex is on another level. Period. End of story."
Can't wait to see what comes next
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"State of the art" is the last thing people listen to?
Glowing review of the T+A by Chris Connaker:
T+A DAC 200 D/A Converter Review
T+A has set the bar extremely high with the DAC 200. This DAC is one for the ages. It sounds fantastic, looks classic, functions seamlessly, is well supported, and is priced competitively. Based on my listening habits and experience with more DACs than I can remember, this would be my number one ...
But less than a year later...
dCS Rossini APEX DAC Review
Audio: Listen to this article. When a product upgrade is released, I often don't read the marketing materials or even seek to find the differences between the versions. I also do my best to avoid conversations about the upgrade with friends. This is the only way I can objectively evaluate the upg...
"The Rossini Apex enabled me to sit in my listening chair and block out the world, while it brought the music to me on a silver platter. ?... ?The Rossini Apex is on another level. Period. End of story."
Can't wait to see what comes next
You have to dig a little deeper, and you will find that the combination of the T+A DAC200 & HQPLAYER is an evolving proposition and not a snapshot in time. With Jussi Laako’s work on HQPLAYER you are literally using the latest digital playback developments with every release. Worth investigating is you want more than technology based on off-the-shelves IC chips or custom FPGA’s developed years ago and with very limited processing.
I have never heard that combination myself. I like to keep things simple, and don't see the need for upsampling - I may be missing out..
There are constantly new developments in digital audio, and there are many solutions available which are not simply based on "off the shelf IC". So that criteria is not really meaningful. But we all like to think we use something really special
Guys this is Sbnx trio thread. We should have comments on his gear, or directdirect compares to his gear, reported listening experiences or videos.
Ok, I was just commenting on your claims, which are not related to the subject matter, I'll agree to that!
Just more of the same drivel !"State of the art" is the last thing people listen to?
Glowing review of the T+A by Chris Connaker:
T+A DAC 200 D/A Converter Review
T+A has set the bar extremely high with the DAC 200. This DAC is one for the ages. It sounds fantastic, looks classic, functions seamlessly, is well supported, and is priced competitively. Based on my listening habits and experience with more DACs than I can remember, this would be my number one ...
But less than a year later...
dCS Rossini APEX DAC Review
Audio: Listen to this article. When a product upgrade is released, I often don't read the marketing materials or even seek to find the differences between the versions. I also do my best to avoid conversations about the upgrade with friends. This is the only way I can objectively evaluate the upg...
"The Rossini Apex enabled me to sit in my listening chair and block out the world, while it brought the music to me on a silver platter. ?... ?The Rossini Apex is on another level. Period. End of story."
Can't wait to see what comes next
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Those of us not using mainstream off-the-shelves HiFi components. There is a small group of us to whom the commercial audio world and commercial offerings are no longer of interest. We are using custom field-coil compression and full-range drivers with custom horns, open-baffle and RiPole subwoofers, Loftin-White style Direct-Coupled and interstate coupled SET amplifiers, filament-bias DHT preamplifiers, transformer based crossovers, use HQPLAYER with custom built servers, etc. There is an underground audio scene that is DIY and artisan in nature and most products are one-off/one-of-a-kind and unique. Those of us in this faction of the hobby do not want the same things others have or to be part of the herd mentality and the “me too” herd type buying practices that are pervasive in today’s audiophiles world. The people in this part of the hobby are like me with a strong sense of individualism
You can find a large number of us on DIYAudio and on other forums, where we are making audio fun again by sharing thoughts & ideas instead of cock-sparing and showing off bling purchases to make up for insecurities.
I have an interesting thread going on another site where I compare the sound of some of the latest mainstream darlings, flavors-of-the-month components and audiophiles “Uber” systems against my “hardcore” underground based horn reference system to demonstrate that knowledge is mightier than spending on audio jewelry. Go check it out as it will be educational.
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None of which has to do with Todd's system.
Gentlemen, let's get back to the thread topic (Todd's AG Trio G3 System) and stay there.
Tom
Gentlemen, let's get back to the thread topic (Todd's AG Trio G3 System) and stay there.
Tom
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
you are correct Im sorry I thought this was a writing session for a SNL skit. LMAO
Yes, I have seen first hand that even though during the setup process the right speaker is turned out for 80% of that time, a properly setup left speaker can still impart soundstage and imaging information. It was trippy to hear sounds move across the stage with only one speaker pointed at you. In fact even with just the left speaker dialed in, the sound was much better than before the setup process started when two speakers were just placed haphazardly.
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