The stunning DMA-500 Anniversary Reference monos take center stage

[PeterA]

Here is a photo of a concert Al and I heard yesterday taken from Tasos's usual first balcony center first row position. It was an excellent performance of Schubert's Die Winterreise. Tonight, Al, Ian, and I will hear an intimate performance of cello and violin in what was once a private home. The program is Bach and Kodaly. Let's say the listening perspective will be very up close and personal. It will be a sober reminder of how far our systems sound from the real thing.

 

[DaveyF]

Excellent write up, Peter. Interesting that you feel that the rack between the speakers diminishes the soundstage. That would be what i would expect as well, given how tall the Zoethecus seems to be. However, I utilize a fairly large rack between my speakers and they are still able to easily delineate depth. Probably pulling Tasos's speakers further into the room might assist in getting that depth perspective back, unless it would prove to be unacceptable, due to the lifestyle impingement.
OTOH, maybe a different angle of the speaker placement might have some benefits in this regard....has anyone tried this approach? Personally, I prefer to hear depth of image whenever it is possible, to me it is a major part of the 'live' experience. You can easily listen without it, but it is so much better with it, IMO.

 

[ack]

Peter... WOW... what an articulate, thoughtful, accurate and COMPLETE write-up. Thanks! You should be writing professionally.

Let me further clarify and/or touch upon a couple of things:

Tasos is unique in that he makes the clearest distinction between listening to live music and music reproduction in the home. For him, they are completely different experiences and pursuits....Transparency to the recording. Live music and reproduced music are two completely different activities. Live music is a reference for the timbre and dynamics of a system.

Where I sit is not what where the microphones sit - that alone makes all of the above true. If we then factor in various recording techniques, then the stronger my position is.

for Tasos, I think the live reference is primarily about understanding and recognizing instrumental timbre.

Correct. My credo is, if it doesn't sound like a voilin, or a piano, or a sax, or... then what I am listening to...

I do not know exactly what equipment modification or replacement is responsible for the dramatic change in the sound that I heard. Tasos will know more about cause and effect, but I will try to describe what I heard.

First, I believe you have not heard any of the Alpha DAC modifications; they were transformational, as I wrote under my system thread a while ago. Second, no one has heard that platter impedance matcher/interface I built. Third, the panels were old and should have been replaced years ago. Fourth, the Spectrals have become more and more capable of driving extremely difficult loads, and I have been quite aware of that. All in all, EVERYTHING has contributed to what you heard the other day. I wouldn't be upgrading and modifying if I didn't think the system needed work all around.

Years ago, I played the Sheffield Drum Track, and I was shocked at how slow, soft and unexciting it sounded.

Yes, that was the with 360 Series 2 monos and much older and colored preamp.

Well, rather than dwell on what once was, I can now write that that Drum Track sounds incredible.

That one LP describes the entire transformation as best as any.

We played a few more direct to disk LPs, Thelma Houston, For Duke, Charlie Byrd, Beethoven’s Appassionata. These all sounded excellent. Very immediate and alive. The brass horns and cymbals were very realistic sounding. Tasos plays his music loud, but this music lends itself to that. The sound remained clear, clean and very articulate. The speakers showed no strain. There was just explosive, effortless and immediate sound. Any hint of high frequency distortion and brightness which I heard before was completely absent.

I think this describes the current state of affairs extremely well, I couldn't have said it any better.

The soundstage, dimensionality and sense of Presence that I am used to hearing from these two particular LPs [Cantate Domino] was missing. That prevented me from really enjoying them at Tasos’s house. I need to “see” the singers in the church or on the stage as well as feel their energy and hear their music.

If there is one recording that would describe the most obvious differences of how the 400RS present the chorus vs the 500ARs, this would be it. You would have loved the 400s, but I feel the 500s are more true to the sources.

The immediacy and energy from the jazz and large scale classical, even the solo violin, were very convincing in his room, often, startlingly so. Those drums, that brass, the orchestral instruments, were often outrageously real sounding.

And this brings me to my final comment, which I have intentionally avoided so far. I had not told you guys much about the 500ARs, or the effect of having the new panels and electronics, so as not to influence your opinions. But now, I can say there are plenty of recordings that give the illusion of Reality - a scary word to use, and one that I threw at you guys in jest the other day

and I commend his wife for putting up with Tasos’s audio equipment

I am pretty sure my wife will appreciate your comment, and she's a true angel.

What was for me a rather cool, hifi sound before, is now much more like real music: engaging, alive, ultra clean, dynamic and articulate. These are his goals, and he has achieved them.

I just feel sorry for having spent so much money on this...

Thanks again Peter for taking the time to write all this!

 

[MadFloyd]

I'm aware that Peter wrote up his comments on our recent visit to Tasos' house on Saturday. I have not read them (yet) and just having got my internet back working I thought I would quickly write up some (very brief - heading out to a concert!) thoughts .

This was my 3rd time hearing Tasos' system. It has always made an impression on me as it conveys music very differently than most systems I hear. A large part of that is that he has panels and I don't have all that much experience with them. I remembered them as always producing fast, clean, articulate sound, particularly in the treble and this visit certainly confirmed as much.

However this time the noise floor seemed astonishingly low. Decays of piano notes were sublime and fascinatingly long. Vocals that have sounded 'hard' in other systems (including my own) that I always blamed on either the recording technique or distortion sounded perfectly natural and clean. This 'cleanliness' was very enjoyable. For me, the presentation of panels is very much a 'hi-fi' experience - I don't so much get the illusion of the performers in the room as I do hearing what was recorded in the most transparent manner. My main goal is to hear all the instrumentation (and notes in the situation where the instrument is polyphonic) with good separation; the less my brain has to work to digest the arrangements and harmony the more enjoyable. In this sense, Tasos' system is a home run.

I have no doubt that Tasos' latest amplifiers is playing a significant role in what I've heard but he has made a number of DIY upgrades since my last visit and I'm sure they all contribute.

I made a joke that I probably shouldn't listen to my system for about a week so my oral memory could dissipate but there was one CD (that I had brought with me and heard at Tasos') that I just had to hear as soon as I got home. Happily I still enjoyed it - but it almost didn't sound like the same recording. Fascinating stuff.

Well done, Tasos. Well done indeed. Thanks for the hospitality and the long lasting impression!

 

[ack]

Thanks Ian, I am glad you enjoyed it, and was worth your time. But I am pointing towards Sunnyvale for the true "miracles" they design and build. And thanks for the larger picture - you guys are all a class act!

 

[Ron Resnick]

What an absolutely fantastic, detailed, understandable intelligible report, Peter! I would have shared your initial, original suspicion of Spectral electronics driving MartinLogan electrostatic panels.

Tasos, you believe that the four enumerated changes account for the sonic transformation? Those four took the Sheffield drum track from sounding slow and lethargic to sounding dynamic and fantastic?

Peter, Ian, Al, do you agree with Tasos?

 

[marty]

Guys,
I love this thread. Peter's articulate write-up was superb but the OP set the stage. Now, I get the audio stuff, but let's forget about that for a moment. What was the 99 pt wine!! Seriously, this sort of evening is what the hobby is all about. Revealing one's significant efforts and curated system to the enjoyment of other hobbyists is as good as it gets. Congrats to Boston's Fab Four.
Marty

 

[ack]

Here is a photo of a concert Al and I heard yesterday taken from Tasos's usual first balcony center first row position. It was an excellent performance of Schubert's Die Winterreise. Tonight, Al, Ian, and I will hear an intimate performance of cello and violin in what was once a private home. The program is Bach and Kodaly. Let's say the listening perspective will be very up close and personal. It will be a sober reminder of how far our systems sound from the real thing.

View attachment 46451

Is this in Rockport?

 

[ack]

Guys,
What was the 99 pt wine!! Seriously, this sort of evening is what the hobby is all about.
Marty

So that was a 2015 Montes Purple Angel, Carmenere/Petit Verdot, from Chile. As you know, 2015 was a great year all around the world. By now, this wine is a bit hard to find. A beautiful wine, at a Spectral price!

 

[ack]

Tasos, you believe that the four enumerated changes account for the sonic transformation? Those four took the Sheffield drum track from sounding slow and lethargic to sounding dynamic and fantastic?

Well, yes, and they are pretty substantial

EDIT: there is a fifth significant modification, the magnetic stabilization of the arm. Quite significant in fact

 

[PeterA]

Is this in Rockport?

Yes, it is the Shalin Liu Performance Center in Rockport, MA.

Here is a photo of the concert Ian, Al, and I attended tonight at the Tiffany mansion in Boston. Sorry you could not join us, Tasos. The music was phenomenal. Bach Sonata for Solo Violin in G minor, Bach Suite for Solo Cello in E Flat Major, and Kodaly Duo for Violin and Cello. The sheer energy coming off of those instruments from ten feet away was incredible. There were perhaps fifteen people there in a large living room. Talk about a clean, articulate and up front dynamic sound. Wow!!!! All that followed by a great French dinner and bottle of wine. It has been three straight days of music with friends.

 

[PeterA]

What an absolutely fantastic, detailed, understandable intelligible report, Peter! I would have shared your initial, original suspicion of Spectral electronics driving MartinLogan electrostatic panels.

Tasos, you believe that the four enumerated changes account for the sonic transformation? Those four took the Sheffield drum track from sounding slow and lethargic to sounding dynamic and fantastic?

Peter, Ian, Al, do you agree with Tasos?

Thanks Everyone. When inspired, the words flow freely.

Ron, I do not really know what is responsible for the dramatic improvement. I can just report what I heard at two moments in time. Tasos lives with the system and heard each change as he made his modifications and bought the new amps. I will defer to his explanations. They make sense to me, but I don't really know. It is easy to believe that the new replacement panels, power supplies and amps can make a huge difference. Perhaps the stiffening of the ML frames is only now being realized or heard with the lower distortion and noise floor of the rest of the system. I would think the DIY efforts to reduce noise, RFI, turntable rumble must also be quite effective, but I have not A/B/A tested anything.

The journey and effort are for Tasos. HIs friends simply benefit from the better sound.

 

[bonzo75]

Offering espresso makes him a better audiophile in my book than Mike

 

[PeterA]

Lol
Actually my interpretation of Peter A expression/photo was:-
Oh my this a great sound ..,,bugger I bought Magico or

Oh my god this is sh....t what do I say to Ack without a wrist slashing ?

That's pretty funny, awsmone.

We actually did discuss whether or not Tasos should consider different speakers. He has always loved the Magico Q3 and will someday have the chance to hear it in my system. The general consensus was that he was all set with his MLs. However, I abstained from the vote saying that I was not sure. Here's why:

Tasos's room is open. There is a dining room off to the left behind one speaker, and an open stairwell off to the right behind the other speaker. Essentially, there is only a very short front wall and the side walls are really far away and not uniform. I may be under the mistaken assumption that panel speakers, and bipole speakers in general play best in enclosed spaces where one can balance the effect of the speakers' back waves with placement for a more solid, grounded and balanced sound. In other words, the front corners of the room can reinforce the back wave of the speaker. Tasos does not benefit from this condition.

Moreover, many conventional box speakers benefit by being out in the room with space around them, and a front wall far back behind them. Tasos's room condition would seem to favor box speakers, though sealed Magico speakers, perhaps not as much.

This is only my assumption, and I could well be mistaken about all of this. Suffice it to say that Tasos has excellent sound now. It is just not clear to me, as it is to the others in our group, that he would not get even better sound with a different type of speaker in his challenging room. It would surely be a different kind of sound. I do agree that it would probably be very hard to improve upon the specific attributes of speed, clarity, dynamics and articulation that he is now getting from his MLs and which are a state goal of his.

 

[MadFloyd]

 

[bonzo75]

The picture is a bit tilted, might want to do some leveling

 

[PeterA]

Ian's photo beautifully depicts the happy marriage between Pass and Spectral. Could this marriage explain the differences we heard between analog and digital?

Just having fun, Tasos.

 

[MadFloyd]

The picture is a bit tilted, might want to do some leveling

That's my STYLE, man!

 

[ack]

I need to lose weight!

 

[ack]

I do agree that it would probably be very hard to improve upon the specific attributes of speed, clarity, dynamics and articulation that he is now getting from his MLs and which are a state goal of his.

I also think it would be hard because it would be quite expensive. However, one obvious area of improvement right now is in the very deep bass. I am still considering a Magico S-Sub.

Meantime, I wanted to itemize the major changes in my system in the last 10 years, and see if I can qualify their effect. In no particular order:

1. Unipivot arm magnetic stabilization: quite significant improvement in image stability and dynamics. I stopped caring about unstabilized unipivots years ago; and few gimbaled interest me now. I am quite certain patents are preventing VPI from offering such an arm as mine
2. The custom Mundorf crossover I built: the sound now is living proof that one can build an extra-ordinarily transparent speaker with these beautiful parts. Kudos to Magico and others who also use them. One doesn't have to pick top of the line Mundorf capacitors either
3. The custom woofers I installed: Much better than stock, ML has probably caught up by now in newer designs
4. The REL sub's power supply mods: a little more articulate deep bass, and it now integrates really well
5. Noise reduction all around: from the Shunyata CX power cords that also don't impede impulse current delivery; to the MIT box shields; to the Pass XP-25 umbilical, main unit and especially MIT phono cable shields; to the MIT power distributors with parallel filters only; to the custom platter interface and VPI feet; to the VPI support plate (granite plus Isodamp)... the effect has been tremendous. As we say, noise is a killjoy
6. The ML panels, power supply and step-up transformer: notable drop in distortion, especially as power-supply technology improves. My custom panel frame strengthening had a smaller effect
7. The Alpha DAC mods: completely transformational, staggering improvement, digital w/o digititis, exceptionally low noise floor (and this is only a Series 1 unit). Living proof that digital can sound like analog
8. The Spectral SDR-3000SL transport: another place where noise dropped significantly. There are transports and there are transports; this is the latter... dating back to the late 90s! When I sold the previous iteration, the SDR-3000, the new owner emailed me back a long list of improvements in his system, over his old Wadia or other, and he couldn't contain his enthusiasm. Too bad there were only so few 3000SL's ever made
9. The Spectral DMC-30SV preamp: unlike all previous iterations of the 30 series, and the 20 series before them, this one is in a league of its own in their lineup. Super dynamic, articulate and transparent to sources
10. The Spectral DMA-400RS: The 400s were a major, ground-breaking step forward over anything prior coming out of Sunnyvale (too bad Peter did not get a chance to hear them as the rest of my system started doing them justice, especially after the 30SV's advent); some things did sound weird, but overall, a great set of amps to this day. Much better bass control than the 360 Series 2 monos, and much much cleaner
11. The Spectral DMA-500AR monos: vanishing noise floor, extremely dynamic (claimed to have 50% more power than the 400RS), highly articulate up and down, extra-ordinary timbral accuracy, and above all, transparent to sources. A masterpiece, and living proof that the Spectral-MIT synergy works extremely well.

Hope this helps