The official audio myth busting thread

[DaveC]

Lol calm down Mike, the present can be fun! Being present is kind of important too...

My success or failure has nothing to do with musical reproduction technology. If yours does, and your a manufacturer then yes build for tomorrow but your still restricted in you design by what's available now. if your just putting other people's products together in a innovative way then best keep one eye on what people want now, one on what you think they will want tomorrow.

At all times remember I agree with you about digital, I am not the enemy of your digital utopia

Yes, if you want to relate to others living in the present. I'm also all for Bliz's digital utopia, but it's not here yet and may not be here nearly as soon as he thinks.

 

[853guy]

As far as I'm concerned, yesterday's over. Today will be over tomorrow. My mind is always 5-10 years from now. That's all I care about. Focusing on yesterday and today, is the fastest way to failure 5-10 years from now. This is because your competition is also thinking 5-10 years from now as well. So handicap yourself if you want, and see how far that will take you in the Information Age.

Uh huh.

So, five years ago you were predicting the music industry would sell 9.2 million records in the US alone in 2015 (a 52% year-on-year increase), and bring in $60 million more in revenue than ad-supported streaming services, right?

Ooh - ooh!

Let me guess - you also predicted the availability of new second-generation masters being made available for refurbished reel-to-reel tape decks too, am I right?

(Did you also predict film would be used for shooting $100 million studio tentpoles? You did, right?)

 

[spazmatron]

Uh huh.

So, five years ago you were predicting the music industry would sell 9.2 million records in the US alone in 2015 (a 52% year-on-year increase), and bring in $60 million more in revenue than ad-supported streaming services, right?

23 years ago I set out the rough blue print for academy style schools in the uk. In a teachers meeting, they laughed me out the room. I was 14....

I also predicted the rise of vinyl years ago when MP3 started happening as my reason was cd would die and the dual format of convenience of mobility MP3 would be coupled to a physical format in the home that had to be better... Vinyl.

So don't go dismissing my idea of record sleeves with no records in them too quickly

 

[spazmatron]

Yes, if you want to relate to others living in the present. I'm also all for Bliz's digital utopia, but it's not here yet and may not be here nearly as soon as he thinks.

Mike needs to put down his self help books and do a little feng shui in the mornings

 

[Blizzard]

Uh huh.

So, five years ago you were predicting the music industry would sell 9.2 million records in the US alone in 2015 (a 52% year-on-year increase), and bring in $60 million more in revenue than ad-supported streaming services, right?

So has that figure surpassed revenue from cd's, digital downloads and streaming services?

My pet rock had a good year as well.

 

[Blizzard]

Bliz, you're in fantasy land right now. Maybe what you're thinking will come to pass, maybe not. Right now a lot of people prefer turntables and their popularity is INCREASING. It's not a fad, it's a return to music that isn't irritating and fatiguing. Once DACs can offer better performance maybe TTs will become less popular, but that's not reality with (maybe) the exception of a few DACs that most can't afford. Just in general, audio hasn't really gotten any better in decades with rare exceptions, it's gotten WORSE. An old horn system with a RtR tape deck and SET amps will smoke almost any modern system with a digital source. This is reality!

On pres, I have no idea if the simaudio is any good, my guess is not because most preamps aren't good. The most important function of a preamp is volume control, here LDR and autoformers are king and can't be touched by digital VCs, especially for lower volume listening. Sorry, if you think digital VC is good, test it vs a good preamp and you'll find better results with the preamp. I've heard it with a Bent autoformer pre and Auralic Vega. This is the major reason preamps are generally better, they have better volume controls if they are a good preamp. So if you have not experienced a preamp that's better than a DAC with whatever crappy VC they put on there, then you have not heard a good preamp. I've never seen a DAC with a truly superior VC that can compete with autoformer or LDR based VCs.

You'll never beat a 32 bit digital volume control if the DAC has a noise floor around -130db or better.

And once again, outdated technology doesn't appeal to me.

 

[TBone]

My pet rock had a good year as well.

In retrospect, they should've came with a warning; children could toss them in the air while expecting a soft landing. So, perhaps those concussed by such past events, view the future differently.

 

[853guy]

So has that figure surpassed revenue from cd's, digital downloads and streaming services?

My pet rock had a good year as well.

Sorry Blizz, my apologies. That figure is actually for the first half of 2015 - second half revenue still being calculated. But why are you asking me? You could see all this five years ago.

 

[Blizzard]

Sorry Blizz, my apologies. That figure is actually for the first half of 2015 - second half revenue still being calculated. But why are you asking me? You could see all this five years ago.

Let me know when the sales surpass digital sales and I'll take a serious look. My crystal balls says this likely won't happen. But if it's wrong, you can be the first to call me out on it.

 

[Blizzard]

Yes, if you want to relate to others living in the present. I'm also all for Bliz's digital utopia, but it's not here yet and may not be here nearly as soon as he thinks.

Perfect, because there's certainly no lack of products designed for today. Nobody will ever get bored.

 

[853guy]

Let me know when the sales surpass digital sales and I'll take a serious look. My crystal balls says this likely won't happen. But if it's wrong, you can be the first to call me out on it.

The numbers aren’t important, Blizz. The trends are, right? After all, I’m talking to a person solely interested in neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow but five years from now, so I just know you’re looking at the trends carefully being an astute and visionary entrepreneur.

The trend for vinyl is year-on-year increase for the last ten years straight. CD’s? Year-on-year decline for the last ten years (though still generated six times the revenue of ad-supported streaming in 2015, and accounted for 78%, 70% and 57% of music industry revenue in Japan, Germany and France respectively - still alive and well there). Downloads? Down 8% in 2015.

Streaming? Doing alright, thanks. But when the largest selling artist of 2015 doesn’t have her album available on Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer, et al, you kinda have to ask where the future of streaming is headed given pay-per-play artist royalties currently average $0.0022 across all streaming services and the Nielsen 2015 report is saying less than 9% of people will pay for a streaming service in the next six months, with 78% saying it’s somewhat to very unlikely.

Fat tails, Blizz. Fat tails. It’s the law of large numbers: the outlier determines the outcomes. Vinyl is the outlier because it’s the most historically dated of the above. Yes, streaming takes up most of the bell curve because it’s the newest and cheapest relatively speaking, but of all of the above, it’s vinyl that’s had the largest trend in year-on-year increase.

That’s why turntables, and tonearms, and cartridges both MM and MC, and reel-to-reel and cassette decks and tuners are still around. Something newer comes in and takes up most of the music-listening public’s money, but in those fat tails there’s still a lot of room for creating a sustainable business model if you’re not afraid of going against what’s currently in vogue and therefore what’s inherently the most competitive/oversaturated part of the market. As of this writing, neither Spotify nor Deezer is profitable - anyone feeling like launching a new streaming service right now? - and let’s not even go there with Tidal.

But again, I don’t why I’m telling you all this, as these trends would have been obvious to you five years ago, being the prescient and smooth-tongued soothsayer you are.

 

[Blizzard]

The numbers aren’t important, Blizz. The trends are, right? After all, I’m talking to a person solely interested in neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow but five years from now, so I just know you’re looking at the trends carefully being an astute and visionary entrepreneur.

The trend for vinyl is year-on-year increase for the last ten years straight. CD’s? Year-on-year decline for the last ten years (though still generated six times the revenue of ad-supported streaming in 2015, and accounted for 78%, 70% and 57% of music industry revenue in Japan, Germany and France respectively - still alive and well there). Downloads? Down 8% in 2015.

Streaming? Doing alright, thanks. But when the largest selling artist of 2015 doesn’t have her album available on Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer, et al, you kinda have to ask where the future of streaming is headed given pay-per-play artist royalties currently average $0.0022 across all streaming services and the Nielsen 2015 report is saying less than 9% of people will pay for a streaming service in the next six months, with 78% saying it’s somewhat to very unlikely.

Fat tails, Blizz. Fat tails. It’s the law of large numbers: the outlier determines the outcomes. Vinyl is the outlier because it’s the most historically dated of the above. Yes, streaming takes up most of the bell curve because it’s the newest and cheapest relatively speaking, but of all of the above, it’s vinyl that’s had the largest trend in year-on-year increase.

That’s why turntables, and tonearms, and cartridges both MM and MC, and reel-to-reel and cassette decks and tuners are still around. Something newer comes in and takes up most of the music-listening public’s money, but in those fat tails there’s still a lot of room for creating a sustainable business model if you’re not afraid of going against what’s currently in vogue and therefore what’s inherently the most competitive/oversaturated part of the market to aim for. As of this writing, neither Spotify nor Deezer is profitable - anyone feeling like launching a new streaming service right now? - and let’s not even go there with Tidal.

But again, I don’t why I’m telling you all this, as these trends would have been obvious to you five years ago, being the prescient and smooth-tongued soothsayer you are.

Okay, well if vinyl takes over the world, and I miss the boat, then I guess I'll be a failure. I'm betting on digital. There's people that think the world is flat still as well. But no matter how popular that cult get's, I won't be joining in.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

I wonder if they listen to vinyl?

 

[PeterA]

The numbers aren’t important, Blizz. The trends are, right? After all, I’m talking to a person solely interested in neither yesterday, today nor tomorrow but five years from now, so I just know you’re looking at the trends carefully being an astute and visionary entrepreneur.

The trend for vinyl is year-on-year increase for the last ten years straight. CD’s? Year-on-year decline for the last ten years (though still generated six times the revenue of ad-supported streaming in 2015, and accounted for 78%, 70% and 57% of music industry revenue in Japan, Germany and France respectively - still alive and well there). Downloads? Down 8% in 2015.

Streaming? Doing alright, thanks. But when the largest selling artist of 2015 doesn’t have her album available on Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer, et al, you kinda have to ask where the future of streaming is headed given pay-per-play artist royalties currently average $0.0022 across all streaming services and the Nielsen 2015 report is saying less than 9% of people will pay for a streaming service in the next six months, with 78% saying it’s somewhat to very unlikely.

Fat tails, Blizz. Fat tails. It’s the law of large numbers: the outlier determines the outcomes. Vinyl is the outlier because it’s the most historically dated of the above. Yes, streaming takes up most of the bell curve because it’s the newest and cheapest relatively speaking, but of all of the above, it’s vinyl that’s had the largest trend in year-on-year increase.

That’s why turntables, and tonearms, and cartridges both MM and MC, and reel-to-reel and cassette decks and tuners are still around. Something newer comes in and takes up most of the music-listening public’s money, but in those fat tails there’s still a lot of room for creating a sustainable business model if you’re not afraid of going against what’s currently in vogue and therefore what’s inherently the most competitive/oversaturated part of the market. As of this writing, neither Spotify nor Deezer is profitable - anyone feeling like launching a new streaming service right now? - and let’s not even go there with Tidal.

But again, I don’t why I’m telling you all this, as these trends would have been obvious to you five years ago, being the prescient and smooth-tongued soothsayer you are.

Interesting information, 853guy. I was missing your exemplary posts, but am glad to be seeing more of them lately. Paraphrasing what was written to me recently in a rather contentious exchange, was this: Data sure does cut to the heart of the matter and make for less argument and clearer understanding of the issue. After being asked, I supplied a measurement. Your post would seem to do just that.

 

[853guy]

Okay, well if vinyl takes over the world, and I miss the boat, then I guess I'll be a failure.

A failure? I doubt it. Even if vinyl does take over the world, given the absolutely maniacal and indefatigably dogmatic attitude you've willingly and somewhat indelicately displayed on this forum, I'm betting you'd find a way of turning it into a passion bordering on the obsessive, and create a new subform about it right here.

Whatever you do, don't give up, Blizz. The world needs your sort of determination if we're ever to have products that revolutionize the way we listen to music. If anyone can, surely someone like you can.

 

[Blizzard]

Peter asked on another thread:


"I think you missed my point. I'm asking you why a preamp from one of the top companies does not include a DAC chip inside. I'm more interested in a high quality preamp that has volume and switching. That is, a traditional preamp with top volume control, analog inputs, the whole deal. Then just add a chip so that it can process a digital signal or whatever happens inside a DAC. I'm NOT asking about a DAC with a volume control that can drive an amp. It has no switching capability and I presume has lower quality parts and build quality. You skipped over those comments in my post."

There are companies who have DAC/pre's. If your favourite company doesn't, write them a letter and ask. But the 2 top reasons are:

1: They don't know how to build DAC's, or simply not interested in getting into the DAC market

2: They would rather sell you 2 boxes and make more money from you.

 

[nc42acc]

Why must you denigrate, belittle and berate everyone who does not believe everything you espouse?

Okay, well if vinyl takes over the world, and I miss the boat, then I guess I'll be a failure. I'm betting on digital. There's people that think the world is flat still as well. But no matter how popular that cult get, I won't be joining in.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

I wonder if they listen to vinyl?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Proper modern high end DAC's designed to power amps direct, have enough output, and proper volume control's. If a DAC, needs a preamp to sound good, then it wouldn't be a DAC I would be buying. I've heard plenty of good preamps, and with a good DAC with a solid output stage, they only degrade performance. If what your saying applies to DAC's, it should also apply to preamps. Why not connect 2 preamps together then?

Yes I realize it makes sense with an old fashioned design. But if there's a better way to do things, why should you care about inferior ways? There's absolutely no reason to build a DAC without a solid output stage and volume control these days. And you really shouldn't need analog inputs either unless for phono, or HT bypass.

And if your DAC uses a Sabre chip, and has a low noise floor, you'll never beat it with an analog volume control. This is because you can't bypass it anyways, and it doesn't degrade the quality. It's only inferior if the DAC has a high noise floor.


While we are on the topic, this is another myth that should be busted. Since it's one of the most annoying myth's in modern audio. Even when the manufacturers insist not to use a preamp, people still do.

Hi blizzard,
Can you list which good preamps that you have listened to in your system and also describe the characteristic differences you heard when running direct instead of thru the pre.

 

[853guy]

Interesting information, 853guy. I was missing your exemplary posts, but am glad to be seeing more of them lately. Paraphrasing what was written to me recently in a rather contentious exchange, was this: Data sure does cut to the heart of the matter and make for less argument and clearer understanding of the issue. After being asked, I supplied a measurement. Your post would seem to do just that.

Hi Peter!

Nice to see you here too.

Data can be used for all sorts of things, I guess. Like power, money and fame, it seems that how one uses it says a lot more about the person than the raw numbers themselves ever could.

Take care,

853guy

 

[Blizzard]

A failure? I doubt it. Even if vinyl does take over the world, given the absolutely maniacal and indefatigably dogmatic attitude you've willingly and somewhat indelicately displayed on this forum, I'm betting you'd find a way of turning it into a passion bordering on the obsessive, and create a new subform about it right here.

Whatever you do, don't give up, Blizz. The world needs your sort of determination if we're ever to have products that revolutionize the way we listen to music. If anyone can, surely someone like you can.

Thanks for the support, but knowing how the next generation digital landscape is looking, I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track.

 

[Blizzard]

Why must you denigrate, belittle and berate everyone who does not believe everything you espouse?

I'm not, I simply don't believe this format is going anywhere. It's nothing personal to anyone, it's just my belief of where the technology is going. This example was to show that many people believe in a lot of things, but it doesn't mean that I will just because they do.