The Grid Protector, the EMI Protector and The Allocator By Schnerzinger-In My System and I’m Blown Away
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
Prove it! Saying it’s “nonsense” doesn’t go very far.
Most readers are smart enough to realize this is why you never read bad reviews.
I had dinner with the head of Nagra. They refuse to pay for reviews, and that’s why you don’t see any Nagra products in the magazines, as an example.
When Fremer shows up in their booth at Munich, that’s paid for by Nagra to Fremer. Nothing wrong per se but it may call into question objectivity.
Not to mention heavily discounted components writers get for writing reviews. Are you saying you paid full price for your system, Myles?! Come on! Objectivity is questionable when you are being essentially compensated by the manufacturer for the review.
Don’t take us for fools… Anyway, this is getting off topic and is just stupidity to think otherwise.
I think we got off on this tangent in this thread because someone asked for reviewers to write about Schnerzinger products. My point was, and still is, (sorry Myles, but your monosyllabic replies are not that convincing) that we will Not see reviews of Schnerzinger if they are not paid for by the company. This can include discounts for the reviewer to acquire the units, obviously.
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You're joking right. You're going to rehash and regurgitate the same stuff? You know what? I can get anything I want for my system. And more to the point, I own everything in my system.
But please. Let's be intellectually honest here. Reviewers pay what dealers do. Otherwise companies are making 2x profit. More to the point, the equipment if bought after a review is used and can not be legally sold as new. But you knew that right?
I happen to know plenty of TAS reviewers and manufacturers with reviews that have appeared in TAS. No mention of pay to play. We have at least one distributor/dealer here who had a product reviewed in TAS.
I've been in the industry for almost 4 decades and it's not a policy to pay for reviews except for 6 moons (who publicly states the reason why.). I wrote for TAS and never a policy. Nor any other magazine I've been associated with nor the two magazines I started.
Vis a vis Schnerzinger, I gave the Picolo POTY last year. No check though. Do you know who I can write to to complain?
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So you have always paid retail pricing for the components in your system?
I’m going to believe what I hear from a major manufacturer, who has no reason to lie, and a reviewer more successful than you (to be honest). But sure, good to know that you have never seen nor heard of such behavior.
[And +1 to my ignore list. Anything I can do to take out wasted time out of my day I welcome. So thank for you that.]
Well you're welcome to your opinion even if it's wrong. Unfortunately my long list of reviews of leading equipment and success flies in the face of your fake facts. Seems Rene likes my reviews of his releases and one of the few covering his lps and tapes.
I'll try to take as balanced a view of the issue as possible, with a little fact-checking.
Are there some among us who have heard critical comments on the subject from more or less reliable sources? Certainly. But there are also many clear examples of absolute independence and integrity. And times (where critical examples come from) may have changed a little.
Does that justify publicly discrediting individuals or the entire profession based on rumors? No.
Should we talk openly about the topic? Why not, if it is done respectfully and in a balanced manner.
Are there black sheep? I think so, as everywhere else.
Is it reprehensible if reviewers (or magazines) “don't do anything without being paid”? No, if it has to do with their business and is in the interest of the other side, they better should do so.
Would it be reprehensible if reviewers or magazines explicitly accepted or demanded compensation for a positive or uncritical review? Yes.
Does a manufacturer (regardless of the review topic) have a fundamental interest in selling a review device to whoever for the retail price afterwards? Of course…they want to sell...and what else should they do with the review unit.
Does this (seemingly relatively common sale of review devices to reviewers in cases of interest) contribute to an impression of absolute avoidance of conflicts of interest? Not really.
Is this approach common practice in most product categories on the market? Almost certainly yes.
Would most of us refuse such an opportunity for honorable reasons? Probably not.
Are most (at least the bigger) companies nowadays more aware of conflicts of interest than possibly review magazines? Possibly, but not sure if more successfully.
Is the dependency one-sided? No. Reviews can have drastic effects (positive or negative) for manufacturers, and in many cases reviewers would probably not be able to afford their equipment at normal prices. In addition, manufacturers also like to surround themselves with respected reviewers (at workshops, etc.) to market their products.
Is there a direct link between an explicitly positive review and a concession from the manufacturer (placing advertisements, selling review samples)? I don't think so, but rather between the publication of a review in general, regardless of the outcome. Part of this is understandable business practice on the part of magazines.
Is it critical to view reviewers as being paid to appear officially at trade fairs on behalf of a manufacturer and engage in marketing-effective exchanges with them? Certainly not, as the manufacturer consciously benefits from this. I have even heard of leaders of countries asking for money for more obscure things.
Is Fremer a good example for this discussion? In my opinion not, as he appears to be one of the most financially independent reviewers in this field for various reasons, as he is one of the very few who tends to write also critical reviews (a review by him is definitely not a sure thing), he is quite open about what he has bought or borrowed (as Myles here), and, due to his reputation, manufacturers tend to benefit more from him than vice versa.
Would Nagra be happy to be quoted making sweeping statements about allegedly paid reviews? Probably not.
Is it true that there are no or hardly any reviews of Nagra products? No, there are many reviews (Stereophile, Sound&Vision, Enjoythemusic, Analogplanet, Positive Feedback, etc., and also one in TAS).
Is it true that the reviews in general are almost exclusively positive, with no comparison to other products? Unfortunately yes, it's a business…every reader can form their own opinion about how useful this is for them. But if you can read between the lines, you will find sufficiently clear statements from a few reviewers in critical cases.
Hope this contributes to calming down
Are there some among us who have heard critical comments on the subject from more or less reliable sources? Certainly. But there are also many clear examples of absolute independence and integrity. And times (where critical examples come from) may have changed a little.
Does that justify publicly discrediting individuals or the entire profession based on rumors? No.
Should we talk openly about the topic? Why not, if it is done respectfully and in a balanced manner.
Are there black sheep? I think so, as everywhere else.
Is it reprehensible if reviewers (or magazines) “don't do anything without being paid”? No, if it has to do with their business and is in the interest of the other side, they better should do so.
Would it be reprehensible if reviewers or magazines explicitly accepted or demanded compensation for a positive or uncritical review? Yes.
Does a manufacturer (regardless of the review topic) have a fundamental interest in selling a review device to whoever for the retail price afterwards? Of course…they want to sell...and what else should they do with the review unit.
Does this (seemingly relatively common sale of review devices to reviewers in cases of interest) contribute to an impression of absolute avoidance of conflicts of interest? Not really.
Is this approach common practice in most product categories on the market? Almost certainly yes.
Would most of us refuse such an opportunity for honorable reasons? Probably not.
Are most (at least the bigger) companies nowadays more aware of conflicts of interest than possibly review magazines? Possibly, but not sure if more successfully.
Is the dependency one-sided? No. Reviews can have drastic effects (positive or negative) for manufacturers, and in many cases reviewers would probably not be able to afford their equipment at normal prices. In addition, manufacturers also like to surround themselves with respected reviewers (at workshops, etc.) to market their products.
Is there a direct link between an explicitly positive review and a concession from the manufacturer (placing advertisements, selling review samples)? I don't think so, but rather between the publication of a review in general, regardless of the outcome. Part of this is understandable business practice on the part of magazines.
Is it critical to view reviewers as being paid to appear officially at trade fairs on behalf of a manufacturer and engage in marketing-effective exchanges with them? Certainly not, as the manufacturer consciously benefits from this. I have even heard of leaders of countries asking for money for more obscure things.
Is Fremer a good example for this discussion? In my opinion not, as he appears to be one of the most financially independent reviewers in this field for various reasons, as he is one of the very few who tends to write also critical reviews (a review by him is definitely not a sure thing), he is quite open about what he has bought or borrowed (as Myles here), and, due to his reputation, manufacturers tend to benefit more from him than vice versa.
Would Nagra be happy to be quoted making sweeping statements about allegedly paid reviews? Probably not.
Is it true that there are no or hardly any reviews of Nagra products? No, there are many reviews (Stereophile, Sound&Vision, Enjoythemusic, Analogplanet, Positive Feedback, etc., and also one in TAS).
Is it true that the reviews in general are almost exclusively positive, with no comparison to other products? Unfortunately yes, it's a business…every reader can form their own opinion about how useful this is for them. But if you can read between the lines, you will find sufficiently clear statements from a few reviewers in critical cases.
Hope this contributes to calming down
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I found this short feature. I don't think I've ever read a report that sums things up so succinctly in so few words. Many people would not be able to hear or describe it so accurately, very good (not because it's positive, but because it's it's to the point)!
As long as reviewers are transparent about the fact that they are buying components at heavy discounts - which I don't think I have ever heard directly from a reviewer, then the practice is fine. Reviewers typically say something like 'I loved it so much, I bought the review unit'. Well, yeah, even paying $1 counts as paying I suppose. Fremer's OMA K5 was significantly reduced in price - he briefly mentioned it, but that's rare among reviewers. Most will not disclose the discount they received. That's a major omission, because it absolutely counts as compensation.
Nagra does NOT participate in reviews, which means (a) they do NOT pay magazines to write puff pieces and (b) they do not offer discounted units to reviewers. THAT is why you do not see Nagra reviews (except for the Brazilian Club de Audio site, which is excellent, BTW, and which ranks Nagra above CH Precision, for example). You'll note that CH does engage in review practices.Again, this came directly from Nagra's CEO. Don't mistake a report on a component launch or an audio show room report, that's not a review. A review is a usually gushing assessment of how great the component is, with a couple of negatives sprinkled in to make it sound more legit. Sure, Stereophile, or what have you will say they went the Nagra booth in Munich and it sounded great, etc... that is not a review.
I never take reviews seriously for this reason - they are all biased.
Finally, again, saying this is "nonsense" is itself a nonsense comment. Thankfully most of us are smart enough to realize that.
...just to mention a few Stereophile ones...those are all real reviews in my book:
Nagra Jazz line preamplifier | Stereophile.com
Branding can be powerful—a well-developed brand connotes strong images in the consumer's mind. Apple means ergonomics, elegance, ego. Fremer means analog, exuberance, fastidiousness. Rolex means Swiss-made, precision, expensive. Nagra means Swiss-made, precision, expensive. I've heard the...
Nagra BPS phono preamplifier | Stereophile.com
This tiny, lightweight, battery-powered jewel is loosely based on Nagra's VPS phono stage that I reviewed in October 2008 but uses bipolar transistors instead of tubes. The bottom of the company's familiar brushed-aluminum case has a grippy rubber material die-cut to spell Nagra. It's intended...
Nagra DAC D/A processor | Stereophile.com
Without having intended to, I seem to have collected several "statement" products. I've already reported on the Weiss Medea and Theta Digital Generation VIII digital-to-analog converters. I saw and expressed interest in the Nagra DAC at the 2002 Consumer Electronics Show, when prototypes of it...
Nagra VPA monoblock power amplifier | Stereophile.com
Nagra's VPA amplification system consists of two slim, handsome monoblock amplifiers intended for vertical placement. They look good adjacent to the speakers. However, two 845 tubes put out a lot of heat, so the amplifier should be at least a foot away from your speakers...unless you're looking...
Nagra PL-P preamplifier | Stereophile.com
One memorable afternoon during HI-FI '97, Kathleen and my pudgy little self were hustling down the crowded corridors of San Francisco's venerable St. Francis Hotel, trying to make the Nagra press event. The Nagra suite was crowded with buzzing journalists, their anticipation palpable—the new...
Nagra PL-L preamplifier | Stereophile.com
Unpacking and installing a new component is always cause for excitement, even if one does it with almost mechanical regularity, and the anticipation is greater when the component is from a manufacturer of almost mythic reputation. So when John Atkinson asked if I'd like to audition Nagra's new...
Nagra VPS phono preamplifier | Stereophile.com
Not that many years ago, it seems, every sound crew in Hollywood and around the world recorded production sound using a compact, open-reel analog tape recorder made by Nagra. The first iteration of the Swiss-made machine appeared in the early 1950s. Shortly thereafter, with the addition of an...
These are all very old products! For sure, the policy changed in the last 5-10 years. I should have mentioned that.
That’s why you won’t see anything from the HD line, except for the HD DAC, which was renamed the Tube DAC. At around that time, so ~2018 or so, the reviews ended.
Your examples are actually perfect proof of my point. The minute that Nagra stopped paying to play, all of these seemingly altruistic reviewers somehow stopped caring and writing about Nagra!
And now back to Schnerzinger - you are not going to see any reviews unless dealers or the company start paying to play. An example of which is ‘hey, review this unit and you can buy it for ~half-off’. It’s true that Mono & Stereo wrote about some products, perhaps that was free; but it’s doubtful and you’ll note that you don’t see anything else.
That’s why you won’t see anything from the HD line, except for the HD DAC, which was renamed the Tube DAC. At around that time, so ~2018 or so, the reviews ended.
Your examples are actually perfect proof of my point. The minute that Nagra stopped paying to play, all of these seemingly altruistic reviewers somehow stopped caring and writing about Nagra!
And now back to Schnerzinger - you are not going to see any reviews unless dealers or the company start paying to play. An example of which is ‘hey, review this unit and you can buy it for ~half-off’. It’s true that Mono & Stereo wrote about some products, perhaps that was free; but it’s doubtful and you’ll note that you don’t see anything else.
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What I'm waiting for, and have asked Emile to consider, is the Nagra Ref DAC with an XDMI input. A tube based DAC from Andreas Koch with an other wordly S/N of -145dB (yes you read that correctly) should have some very attractive attributes for great listening. (Has anyone ever seen the published S/N on a H360? I have not.)
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100%! Many people don’t understand what Nagra has done with the HD and even more so the REF line because, again, Nagra doesn’t pay for reviews, so there are none.
What is the H360?
Emile needs to hear the DAC X. I think he’ll have a very different view of the best DAC once he hears it.
Good evening gentlemen. For the sake of those who are subscribed to this thread to learn about the thread topic, can we please actually get back to it? Thanks in advance.
Tom
Tom
Just to point that because it is not reviewed in the two main US high-end magazines does not mean they do not participate in reviews. In Europe we can find recent reviews in german, polish and french magazines. In several markets the marketing is carried by distributors.
For years I already had a 'Schnerzinger system' – with Schnerzinger cables, a complete Schnerzinger power distribution system, EMI PROTECTOR, GRID PROTECTOR with MULTI GUARD, and a COMPONENT GUARD. I was really satisfied and thought that my protection against high-frequency interference was completely sufficient, since I had at least one Schnerzinger Protector or Guard for each of the three areas: room, power, and components.
Nevertheless, over the past two years I have gradually expanded my Giga Canceling protection, first with the LAN PROTECTOR, then SPEAKER AMP GUARD, FUSE, switching to the latest generation of signal cables, and finally with the GROUND GUARD.
With each individual step, the improvement was so noticeable and synergistic that I regretted not having achieved this sound enhancement sooner.
Thus, I have learned through my own experience in my setup: Every element of the seemingly extensive Schnerzinger Giga Canceling Portfolio in the areas of room, power, network, and HiFi components has its justification. Every additional step has an effect, each individual measure works, and all together complement each other on the way to the best possible music experience.
For one week I now have the new REFLECTOR System (6). This step is special in every respect, both in terms of price and sound. I had not expected this gain in clarity and unpretentious naturalness from my equipment and speakers before. And that makes the Reflector a bargain. If I had spent 100k or more on new speakers and achieved this result, I would have been completely satisfied and happy.
I am beginning to understand how significant the auditory impairment caused by high-frequency interference fields actually is. Schnerzinger Giga Canceling works to reduce these interference fields and enable this quantum leap in music enjoyment.
Nevertheless, over the past two years I have gradually expanded my Giga Canceling protection, first with the LAN PROTECTOR, then SPEAKER AMP GUARD, FUSE, switching to the latest generation of signal cables, and finally with the GROUND GUARD.
With each individual step, the improvement was so noticeable and synergistic that I regretted not having achieved this sound enhancement sooner.
Thus, I have learned through my own experience in my setup: Every element of the seemingly extensive Schnerzinger Giga Canceling Portfolio in the areas of room, power, network, and HiFi components has its justification. Every additional step has an effect, each individual measure works, and all together complement each other on the way to the best possible music experience.
For one week I now have the new REFLECTOR System (6). This step is special in every respect, both in terms of price and sound. I had not expected this gain in clarity and unpretentious naturalness from my equipment and speakers before. And that makes the Reflector a bargain. If I had spent 100k or more on new speakers and achieved this result, I would have been completely satisfied and happy.
I am beginning to understand how significant the auditory impairment caused by high-frequency interference fields actually is. Schnerzinger Giga Canceling works to reduce these interference fields and enable this quantum leap in music enjoyment.
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Yes, one of the major insights on the Schnerzinger path is, you understand, that you didn’t know the quality of your set up and how capable it is at all before. And you wonder, what sense it makes, to develop components without those measures. And you hear improvements, which so far you connected with serious component or speaker upgrades and didn’t imagine achievable by such measures. Not only the realism and overall resolution part of it but especially in combination with the cabling also for example bass performance. A completely different level of bass control AND extension AND harmonic structure. Improvements that equal a serious power amp or speaker upgrade or extensive room acoustic treatment.
On the other hand the resolution and realism part of it is a fundamental change from Hifi’ish pin point imaging to transforming those pin points to 3D objects and air everywhere, filled with sound.
On the other hand the resolution and realism part of it is a fundamental change from Hifi’ish pin point imaging to transforming those pin points to 3D objects and air everywhere, filled with sound.
For my ears the Reflector provided the biggest bang for the buck. All you do to prove that is to remove them from your room
That is a strong statement. Because it means that the effect of your Reflector 4-piece set on you is greater than the effect of your GRID plus Multi Guards plus EMI combined.
I would have assumed that all these devices have roughly comparable value for money. I will not make this comparison, because these devices complement each other and each has become indispensable to me.
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