The Colibri “Master Signature”

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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Actually there used to be a predecessor version to the 312s, simply called SME 312. This one was not on the same level as the V, having a 2-piece aluminium armtube instead of the one-piece magnesium tube, a lesser copper inner cable instead of the silver litz wire, and lesser quality bearings.

The successor 312s is basically a V-12 with a detatchable headshell, minus the dynamic tracking force and the comfortable lever for the counterweight. The rest is the same as the V-12.

...ah yes, and I had to shell out 60€ to get the little screw that helps with the height adjustment and comes as a standard with the V. *sigh*

Anyway, as far as I know vdH uses a 312S himself.
Thank you for that explanation. I think it is always fascinating to know what arms the cartridge designers actually use to develop the designs. One would presume there is a good match between this arm and those cartridges.
 

jackelsson

Active Member
Dec 1, 2013
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Thank you for that explanation. I think it is always fascinating to know what arms the cartridge designers actually use to develop the designs. One would presume there is a good match between this arm and those cartridges.
Well, let me put it this way: there was an idea behind me getting the 312S before I bought my first Colibri... :)

Having said that: vdH will tune a Colibri (and also his other bigger cartridges) to your tonearm and taste if you ask him. Both times I bought my two Colibris I sent him a letter beforehand, describing my system and what I wanted to get from my cartridge. Worked well.
 
May 30, 2010
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What kind of Adyton phono do you have? Adyton Chorus?
Yes, the Chorus. It is an exceptionally well built unit - a powerfull separate power suply and the solid-state discrete amplifying modules are suspended to avoid any micro phony effects. If I was a reasonable audiophile I would use it for vinyl reproduction and forget all else ...
 
May 30, 2010
15,505
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Portugal
Isn't vdH himself using an SME 312?
Just to tell I am using the MSS with the SMEV with great success. Probably I will sell my cartridge collection, but keeping the Sumiko Palo Santos as an alternative - still nor ready to 100% stability ...
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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Just to tell I am using the MSS with the SMEV with great success. Probably I will sell my cartridge collection, but keeping the Sumiko Palo Santos as an alternative - still nor ready to 100% stability ...
I should try my Colibri on my SME V-12.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I should try my Colibri on my SME V-12.
Think the difference between the older Colibris ave the Stradivarius ones is pretty large, at least based on the Colibris I have heard (4)
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
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Think the difference between the older Colibris ave the Stradivarius ones is pretty large, at least based on the Colibris I have heard (4)
That may well be the case, Bonzo. I don't really know.
 

jackelsson

Active Member
Dec 1, 2013
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Think the difference between the older Colibris ave the Stradivarius ones is pretty large, at least based on the Colibris I have heard (4)
While - for me - my Sig does in fact do some things better than my previous XGW I still wouldn't call this difference 'pretty large' in the meaning of 'sevaral leagues apart'. Isn't complaining about any Colibri moaning on a rather high level...?

Besides, since there are so many different versions of Colibris, plus the usual system dependancy, plus the different tastes that might let the one search for something different than the other, it might be difficult to judge on such a general level anyway.
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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I started thinking a 9” 4 point would be better than my 11” 4 point for the mss sig, I hope to try it soon.
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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It has lower effective mass, 13gr for 9" 4 point and 16gr for my standart 4 point.

The dynamic compliance is 18 to 20x10-6 for the cartridge and it weighs around 7,5grams plus the fixing hardware. So in total about 8,5 to 9grams.

9" has more fitting specs for the colibri mss. The resonance is around 8hz closer to 9hz for that combo. Whereas for the 11" 4 point the resonance is around 7hz to 8hz. It is not a big difference but I feel like the colibri prefers lighter arm. When I damped my 4 point everything became better. That lead me to thinking, if I can get away without damping but with an arm that has low effective mass it would be better. I love the 4 point too, so a 9" 4 point can be an option for me. However, I also ordered the derenevill headshell mat, recommended by shakti. He says it works well with colibris.
 
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bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
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Actually, the effective mass of an 11" 4 point is 18gr. See here. I also have a standard 4 point and have been giving some thought to getting a MSS. But I'm not sure on absolute compatibility, either. Another concern is the 4 point anti-skate which doesn't allow for adjustment low enough to meet the suggested value for the MSS. And zero anti-skate isn't likely to work well, either.

Losing on the fly VTA with the 9" would be a downside for me. And I also believe the 9" doesn't have the damping oil reservoirs like the 11".
 
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kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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Yes, 18gr for the 11" 4 point, sorry for that and the resonance is around 7hz.

For anti skating I took off the standart weight and made a blutak wight. It works, no problems on anti skating and Frank told me they can send a lighter weight too.
 

Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 4, 2014
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Be careful what you say about 9”or 11” inch arms ! Michael Fremer might
reappear like a ghost from Christmas
past :eek: Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!
 

bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
882
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California
Yeah, the 11" seems too heavy. Let's be sure of the compliance number first, if possible. The cart I use has a compliance around 12 with the same mass. So it's close to 9Hz but still a bit under. I unscrewed the little queueing lever from the headshell just to try to get as light as possible. Maybe titanium headshell screws would also help? Probably not by much.
 
Likes: tima

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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Actually, the effective mass of an 11" 4 point is 18gr. See here. I also have a standard 4 point and have been giving some thought to getting a MSS. But I'm not sure on absolute compatibility, either. Another concern is the 4 point anti-skate which doesn't allow for adjustment low enough to meet the suggested value for the MSS. And zero anti-skate isn't likely to work well, either. ...
I can understand where the idea came from for 13g Effective Mass for 4P 11". All the manuals I've seen including latest 2018-04 say EM is 13g. However Franc confirms the Web site spec is correct at 18g and he will update the manual. Although he did say EM is 16-18g depending on how you measure it - I did not get into details on that.

Yes, it would be good to get confirmation on the MSS compliance figure. It was not on the box, although the box spec does say Effective Mass 10-16g. (Kodomo - was the spec you cited on your box?)

IF compliance is 18x10-6 cm/dyne @ 10Hz, and MSS weight is 8-9g w/ hardware, VinylEngine table says 7Hz resonance, just outside their desirable range of 8-11Hz. Various opinions on the range but most agree 8Hz is the low-end optimal. When I get a chance I will try cart on my MkVII Tri-Planar, EF=11g

Wrt anti-skate, MSS box spec indicates: 0.6 - 0.9g. Kuzma has smaller weight about 1/3 the mass of the default, says Franc. But it is not calibrated, so use is experimental. I was going to try small o-rings.
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
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Cologne, Germany
Can we verify that the VdH compliance figure references 10 Hz? Maybe @shakti can help confirm?
Every Colibri leaves vdh with a compliance beeing ideal for SME V or 312s.
The recommended effective arm mass is written on the box.
You can order LW (light weigt) versions as standard, but also versions for heavy weight tonearms @order .

The most Colibri gets customized for a dedicated tonearmwhile having the 300h service.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
5,629
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North Shore of Boston
Every Colibri leaves vdh with a compliance beeing ideal for SME V or 312s.
The recommended effective arm mass is written on the box.
You can order LW (light weigt) versions as standard, but also versions for heavy weight tonearms @order .

The most Colibri gets customized for a dedicated tonearmwhile having the 300h service.
What is the effective mass of the SME 3012R arm? There are many reports of the Colibri Master Signature sounding fantastic on that arm.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Northern NY
Every Colibri leaves vdh with a compliance beeing ideal for SME V or 312s.
The recommended effective arm mass is written on the box.
You can order LW (light weigt) versions as standard, but also versions for heavy weight tonearms @order .

The most Colibri gets customized for a dedicated tonearmwhile having the 300h service.
what is this Colibri 300 hour service requirement ?
 

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