The best Dipoles, Dipoles that can do bass?

[christoph]

Are you saying that Henk's pair of Grands is available for sale?

For the right price he might consider
I guess...

 

[microstrip]

For the right price he might consider
I guess...

The inevitable question - what is the right price?

 

[christoph]

The inevitable question - what is the right price?

There is only one way to find out.
Should I provide you with Henks contact data?

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, it is, and it is all set up. He will also help in setting up. And this is THE apogee to buy.

 

[christoph]

Yes, it is, and it is all set up. He will also help in setting up. And this is THE apogee to buy.

I guess you are right, Ked

 

[christoph]

BTW. when I last saw Henk in Munich this year, he called me a traitor for adding horns to my Apogees ;

 

[microstrip]

There is only one way to find out.
Should I provide you with Henks contact data?

Thanks, but no, I never work that way. I only consider something after knowing the price.

 

[bonzo75]

BTW. when I last saw Henk in Munich this year, he called me a traitor for adding horns to my Apogees ;

Yes and he introduced me to Marcel just as I was leaving. A few steps later it dawned on me that Marcel is the ex-Goldmund engineer he talks about who helped him redo the Grands over the last 8 or 9 years. So I went back and thanked Marcel profusely for allowing guys like us the opportunity to listen to these beasts

 

[Zero000]

BTW. when I last saw Henk in Munich this year, he called me a traitor for adding horns to my Apogees ;

He was right

Also, no one should buy Henk's Grands.

Henk is the rightful curator. They are his babies. And they may be the best pair on the planet.

All should bow before and pay homage, offer sacrifices etc etc

 

[infinitely baffled]

This doesn't feel like a realistic buying option to me....

 

[morricab]

From the eight Krell MDA-300s mentioned here?

The only people I know who have heard the Grand are Ked and Ron. I can't comment on any practical experience with them at all.

I have heard them but not Henk's pair. Last time I was at Henk's he had re-ribboned FRs and a huge Velodyne sub.

I heard Grands in various states of development including totally restored and driven by 6 NAT monos. Later with Built-in Krell amp on the tweeter and sub it was 4 NAT monos (bass panel and mid ribbon).

It sounded very good from a hifi perspective but I heard interference from the Apogee built-in active xover that I feel damaged realism. How do I know? I heard the same speaker with passive xover on the panel (from a Diva) with tube active xover from panel to subs and the a PS Audio or Krell amp on the subs. pair of Sphinx PJ 14 in mono to drive panels and fed from Sphinx PJ32 CD player and TACT room correction preamp in bypass mode (sound quality dropped dramatically when DSP was engaged).

Sound was staggeringly good and I know how good NAT amps are so the drop in sound with a fully functioning Grand seems to be the built-in electronics.

 

[bonzo75]

I really respect Florian for how be bought the Grands when he was 22 and how he built them up, but that sound with NATs is not close to what Henk gets - I also prefer Christoph's Scintilla's. How much of that are the Henk mods to the Grands and how much of that is power I cannot exactly say, but having heard NATs with an FR, that did not work either.

 

[morricab]

I really respect Florian for how be bought the Grands when he was 22 and how he built them up, but that sound with NATs is not close to what Henk gets - I also prefer Christoph's Scintilla's. How much of that are the Henk mods to the Grands and how much of that is power I cannot exactly say, but having heard NATs with an FR, that did not work either.

You cannot compare FR panels and Grand panels...totally different impedance and sensitivity

 

[bonzo75]

You cannot compare FR panels and Grand panels...totally different impedance and sensitivity

I know. Grands are supposed to be 6 ohm, FR going down to 1. I said I heard NAT with Grands and NAT with FR, both didn't work for me, possibly one of the cases of the former is not having the Henk mods. Henk in his Grands has changed 50 or so opamps in the Grands with Marcel's help. And he feeds it loads of power, he also has 30 solar panels to help out with the power. How much of each item helps I have no idea, but his Grands system is just amazing. Henk is also using original ribbons for the Grands, though he changes to Graz's for all other models.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, I repeat again, aren’t the FRs and Divas realistically what IB should be considering?

 

[bonzo75]

If he has to build ground up system, yes. But with Henk's grands already done up, no. So taking Henk's grands out of the equation and making it a general grands, yes

 

[morricab]

I know. Grands are supposed to be 6 ohm, FR going down to 1. I said I heard NAT with Grands and NAT with FR, both didn't work for me, possibly one of the cases of the former is not having the Henk mods. Henk in his Grands has changed 50 or so opamps in the Grands with Marcel's help. And he feeds it loads of power, he also has 30 solar panels to help out with the power. How much of each item helps I have no idea, but his Grands system is just amazing. Henk is also using original ribbons for the Grands, though he changes to Graz's for all other models.

The subtle electronic "Haze" that I heard with the full Grand was enough for me to know that it was not the amps because NAT, whether you think it will drive them or not, doesn't have that electronic "haze" or "grain". Also, I heard a number of times the Grand panels running full range (like what Christoph does with his Studio Grands) with a Diva crossover with NAT SE2SE monos and CAT JL2 Signatures and both sounded fantastic this way...better than the full Grand due to this electronic signature (and yes, Flo and I both thought that the SE2SEs were superior to the very good CAT). I also heard those same NATs drive the crap out of a pair of little Stages...great sounding small panel speaker.

I have no doubt that replacing 50 odd opamps helps...but not as much as making sure 50 some opamps never find their way into a circuit with speakers as sensitive to electronics as an Apogee Grand.

 

[bonzo75]

As always... You are comparing a grands sound we agree on to a grands that you haven't heard based on how you think Henk's might sound without listening to them... These extrapolations are senseless. Christoph has heard Henk's grands.

 

[spiritofmusic]

What are these Grands doing better than FRs or Divas?

 

[bonzo75]

To start with, I haven't heard a good diva yet, so I don't know. Christoph hasn't either iirc. I will visit Bryan later this year he is moving places again.

Many who owned all preferred scintilla to the diva anyway, after grands and FR. I am not saying grands are better than FR. I am saying Henk's are. They have been more managed to sound right. Maybe another idea is to buy the FR and leave it with him for a year