TechDAS Air Force Zero (real final photo)

[spiritofmusic]

Congrats.
But if it was only about speed stability, we'd be all DD by now.

 

[Legolas]

The Air Force Zero U.S. Premiere at The Audio Salon
https://techdas.jp/2019/04/02/the-air-force-zero-u-s-premiere-at-the-audio-salon-april-9-10th-2019/

 

[microstrip]

Congrats.
But if it was only about speed stability, we'd be all DD by now.

Again, stability in general is meaningless. We need precision, but not fantastic accuracy for audiophile sound reproduction. The broadcasting needed extremely accurate DD turntables.

For "speed stability" all we need is a servo system and an inexpensive stable oscillator , we do not need DD.

 

[rockitman]

I like the 3012R in the rear slot !

 

[tima]

Again, stability in general is meaningless. We need precision, but not fantastic accuracy for audiophile sound reproduction. The broadcasting needed extremely accurate DD turntables.

For "speed stability" all we need is a servo system and an inexpensive stable oscillator , we do not need DD.

Are you speaking in the 'royal we'?

Stable speed accuracy and low noise are the primary criteria of a decent turntable. How far off from 33-1/3 is within your range of inaudible precision?

 

[tima]

Being Techdas each piece is first grade crafted. At the same time I wonder why making a platter rotate has to be so damn complicated. It is getting close to a Tourbillon mechanism.

Fortunately the Techdas is accurate. ;-)

 

[tima]

It is complex but the complexity is there towards not just sonics but high levels of ease of use. They recognize that time, our time, is valuable. I call that considerate engineering. I suppose some audiophiles like hustling and bustling about like Victor Frankenstein in his lab, perhaps with an Igor in tow to boot. No mad scientist behavior required here.

Nice to have you back from hiatus, Jack.

 

[Tango]

Fortunately the Techdas is accurate. ;-)

Both my Techdas and Kronos used to have speed control problems until I got them sorted out Tima. The are accurate now. But owners just dont want to say when they are not.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[NorthStar]

Is it important to be exactly @ 33.333 rpm? ...What about if it deviates to 33.334 rpm after two months? You can readjust right?

I like the solid design, a lot. ...The price just a little less, but that's not important for the people contemplating an ownership.

 

[Folsom]

Consistency is more audible than speed itself. You could run at 34hz and it would sound better than a wobbly 33.33hz that sloops in speed often.

 

[XV-1]

Are you speaking in the 'royal we'?

Stable speed accuracy and low noise are the primary criteria of a decent turntable. How far off from 33-1/3 is within your range of inaudible precision?

as spoken by people that own belt drives

 

[Bodhi]

This is a mega tt, but if I were in the market for a Reference tt, the AF1 Premium would do fine.

 

[tima]

Both my Techdas and Kronos used to have speed control problems until I got them sorted out Tima. The are accurate now. But owners just dont want to say when they are not.

Kind regards,
Tang

okay - my post was more about the Tourbillion. ;-)

 

[Tango]

Is it important to be exactly @ 33.333 rpm? ...What about if it deviates to 33.334 rpm after two months? You can readjust right?
.

To me not really. Inaudible. My speed varies everyday if you watch the three decimals readout. The last three decimal is so tiny your day to day electricity small fluctuation will probably effect it. You can do a blind test 33.333 vs 33.331 vs 33.335 and fool yourself that you hear any difference. I think many tts have only two decimals readout for a reason.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[Tango]

okay - my post was more about the Tourbillion. ;-)

The Tourbillion is cool .

Tang

 

[tima]

Consistency is more audible than speed itself. You could run at 34hz and it would sound better than a wobbly 33.33hz that sloops in speed often.

I would write that as instability is more audible than speed itself. Of course. But stable accuracy is easily distiquished from less stable accuracy. Imo, audible wow and flutter is an ancient gauge; our ears are better than that.

You can do a blind test 33.333 vs 33.331 vs 33.335 and fool yourself that you hear any difference.

Have you tried that? I didn't think there are turntables that accurate across a side?

 

[Tango]

Have you tried that? I didn't think there are turntables that accurate across a side?

No, I never tried. But I have been listening to that range and did not hear any difference.

Tang

 

[tima]

No, I never tried. But I have been listening to that range and did not hear any difference.

Tang

On a single table with same arm and cartridge and speed varying in the range 33.331 to 33.335, you probably wouldn't hear the impact of that variation. Between near identical tables where one runs in that range and the other is consistently 33.333 you may. The difference likely is heard in terms of basic audio attributes such as tonality, dynamics, dimensionality, etc., not pitch variation. The numbers themselves across different tables (say Kronos or AF1) are partly a function of what is being measured and how, for example the motor speed or the platter speed.

 

[microstrip]

Are you speaking in the 'royal we'?

Stable speed accuracy and low noise are the primary criteria of a decent turntable. How far off from 33-1/3 is within your range of inaudible precision?

My Studer A80 is specified at +/- .2%, for me this is enough - I believe they did their homework! Anyway I have read that most people will not distinguish in any way any difference between 33.2 and 33.5 RPM.

I never did any checks on my range, did you carry any on yours?

 

[microstrip]

On a single table with same arm and cartridge and speed varying in the range 33.331 to 33.335, you probably wouldn't hear the impact of that variation. Between near identical tables where one runs in that range and the other is consistently 33.333 you may. The difference likely is heard in terms of basic audio attributes such as tonality, dynamics, dimensionality, etc., not pitch variation. The numbers themselves across different tables (say Kronos or AF1) are partly a function of what is being measured and how, for example the motor speed or the platter speed.

Do you have any reliable experimental data on these values or are these just suppositions? I must say it goes against everything I have read on this subject. Is this a particular property of analog or does it also apply to digital?

Surely what matters is platter speed - the values measured at the motor are of little value for this question.