Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Kingrex]

...g-wiz, I hope so!

Kingrex said:
Are we about to come of an age where you purchase a server, and then get a modem, router and switch that are "Tuned" to optimal with the server.

It actually makes sense on the surface. From a software perspective.

 

[Xymox]

Everyone's system is dfferent.

I think this is very true.

While using a basic UTP cable and nothing else is great theoretically and as Emile says a perfect base line to revisit now with the upgrade, a huge number of technical factors will effect results. There is a LOT going on and Ethernet is a stunningly complex protocol with a zillion ways it can communicate. Each time you plug one in it negotiates a amazing number of things and each wire, each lenght, what phase the moon is at that moment will effect its pick for a modulation system. Its a VERY analog system that conveys a digital signal. There ain't no 1's and 0's on that wire. Its sending a "constellation" of points. Each point can be 4 analog values. Its sending zillions of these grids of dots per second and all 4 pair have thier own grids of dots flying thru them and it all gets reassembled using DSP and adaptive filtering with error correction occuring at various % and then A/D into a bitsream. NEVER look at Ethernet/optical or USB as a digital cable. They are highly complex analog signals and that is why they can sound so much like analog cables IMHO. The devices that transmit ethernet signals and the devices that recieve them is also insanely complex. These are complex chips. All this with clocks, buffers, RF noise, distortions of all manners.. Its NO WONDER we all hear very clear differences and devices like the Taiko can make such a huge difference. Even with a firmware/software update.
cables.

 

[Muni]

It actually makes sense on the surface. From a software perspective.

for me from both perspectives...

 

[QuantumWave]

I think this is very true.

While using a basic UTP cable and nothing else is great theoretically and as Emile says a perfect base line to revisit now with the upgrade, a huge number of technical factors will effect results. There is a LOT going on and Ethernet is a stunningly complex protocol with a zillion ways it can communicate. Each time you plug one in it negotiates a amazing number of things and each wire, each lenght, what phase the moon is at that moment will effect its pick for a modulation system. Its a VERY analog system that conveys a digital signal. There ain't no 1's and 0's on that wire. Its sending a "constellation" of points. Each point can be 4 analog values. Its sending zillions of these grids of dots per second and all 4 pair have thier own grids of dots flying thru them and it all gets reassembled using DSP and adaptive filtering with error correction occuring at various % and then A/D into a bitsream. NEVER look at Ethernet/optical or USB as a digital cable. They are highly complex analog signals and that is why they can sound so much like analog cables IMHO. The devices that transmit ethernet signals and the devices that recieve them is also insanely complex. These are complex chips. All this with clocks, buffers, RF noise, distortions of all manners.. Its NO WONDER we all hear very clear differences and devices like the Taiko can make such a huge difference. Even with a firmware/software update.
cables. View attachment 89385

Really interesting! Could you provide the captions/legends for panels (a) to (f) ?

 

[Xymox]

Really interesting! Could you provide the captions/legends for panels (a) to (f) ?

It was just a random google image of a constellation pattern. Lots of modulation systems use it. I did this google image grab. https://www.google.com/search?q=eth...2D7wQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=2133&bih=1060&dpr=1.2

A std google of the same thing leads to lots of deep dives about ethernet. https://www.google.com/search?q=eth...hUKEwia4d75rIf2AhUqIjQIHUsgDhMQ_AUoAHoECAEQAA

QAM gives the basic idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrature_amplitude_modulation

Constellation diagram - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[marty]

Ah! I was confused as well. Now that I've checked the reference links, I think I've figured it out. These are are images of cable transmission from the following devices:

 

[Xymox]

Ah! I was confused as well. Now that I've checked the reference links, I think I've figured it out. These are are images of cable transmission from the following devices:

View attachment 89388

Ahahahaha... Awesome..

 

[Kingrex]

Nice Marty. I was rolling with it for a moment.

 

[Xymox]

By PM request. That this might help others understand this better.

I described how a QAM link worked over on a thread i did modding a multigig router. I spent some effort to make these modulations things understandable. Make no mistake, these things are highly complex and figuring them out wore out plenty of my neurons. This is for a cable modem signal, but its the same thing. Actually Ethernet is more complex with each lightbulb having 4 levels of brightness. AT least this is my understanding.

Think of a light bulb going on/off. That on/off pattern can convey a message. Dots and dashes of Morse code can communicate really well using just a dot/dash or a on/off. Now if you had 2 light bulbs at the same time, you could communicate twice as much or twice as fast. QAM Modulation uses a frame of 256 light bulbs at once and these lights go on/off incredibly quickly.. A DOCSIS 3.1 cable modem typically uses 32 channels of these 256 light bulb frames. This is a whopping 8,192 light bulbs going on/off millions of times a second. The newest modulation has 4096 light bulbs per "frame", this is OFDM. A gigabit, and soon multigigabit, connection combines the 32 QAM 256 channels and the OFDM channel. There can even be 2 OFDM channels. The modem then keeps track of aprox 17,000 modulated points each turning on/off millions of times a second. Any of these lights could get blocked by noise and fog, delayed more then the others or skewed in big groups. There are not really light bulbs, its just a analogy. They are modulated points.

From this thread https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/multigig-modem-router-mod-project.32090/page-2

 

[Kris]

Hi Kris,

I’m trying to see if I understood your point correctly:

So the changes you made to your switches and power supplies created a Delta positive improvement over your original switches/power supplies in the sonic performance of your system PRIOR to the last OS update Emile did.

And then, after installing Emile’s OS update you got another DELTA or greater increase in the sonic performance of your system?

So that in effect, you’ve gotten a 2*DELTA or greater improvement over your original switches/power supplies in the sonic performance of your system? Is that correct?

Correct. Simmilar gains.
1. Big step was adding modified swiches with PinkFaun ultra clocks and top LPS. Versus old switches.
2. Big step was OS and USB software

Please keep in mind
Nr1. swiches , clocks,cables and many DC4 arc6 rails was in total a very expensive upgrade and it took me almost year to collect.
Nr2. EMILE magic upgrade was free of charge and done in 5 minutes.

I got my Extreme in 2019. I got countless upgrades over that time and my system improved dramatically for free.

For someone looking for a server now there is no other wise option then getting Exterme I believe.

 

[wil]

@Kingrex, is it best to avoid CCA (copper clad aluminum) in favor of pure copper?

 

[Ultrafast69]

Hard to argue that simple is better, I mean who doesn’t long for that.

Hats off to Taiko allowing us the option to become less dependent on all the accessorial products used to chase the sound.

During construction of Music Room 2 I ran coaxial from the service entrance into Room 2 in order to have the option to move the modem, router and switch from the service entrance to within the audio eco system addressing differences in potential and have found that to be a superior method.

As of tonight, I removed the shielded cable and replaced this with an unshielded cable plus moved it into Port 1. I’m not hearing any reason to go back.

 

[Bobvin]

I’m sure everyone is loving the amazing upgrade Emile rolled out this week. Just remarkable how the server improves every DAC, elevates digital in such an organic way. A couple friends came by and were gobsmacked. Then I played side 3 from Hugh Masakela‘s HOPE Lp, the 45 rpm version through the Etsuro & CS Port phono stage… damn if the digital isn’t bumping up against my vinyl sound quality. Different, yes. Better, yes —on some recordings. Tonight with Bayz CounterPoint speakers… once you get those dialed into your room they are just outstanding. Competitive with all, at every level.

I have been swamped lately, the damn state is auditing my little business. Taking a break to listen is priceless. I just love how my system has improved with the Extreme, and topped off with a little software tweak that goes above and beyond.

Thanks again to team Taiko. I love sharing with others what your server brings to the table.

 

[Blue58]

And has anyone tried Roon build 903?

since updating Roon I have the spinning blue icon and it’s telling me it‘s unidentified 20 tracks. Rebooted and removed app but still spinning after 3 days.
Can‘t wait for XDMS.

 

[QuantumWave]

Interesting video on coupled ‘vibrations’ or ‘oscillations’

Similar effects in audio?

 

[Blue58]

Interesting video on coupled ‘vibrations’ or ‘oscillations’

Similar effects in audio?

Linn used to do something similar at demos. Two LP12 side by side, bounce one platter and the other would start to bounce proving you still needed a mana table.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Interesting video on coupled ‘vibrations’ or ‘oscillations’

Similar effects in audio?

Wow, that is a very convincing demo

 

[Taiko Audio]

since updating Roon I have the spinning blue icon and it’s telling me it‘s unidentified 20 tracks. Rebooted and removed app but still spinning after 3 days.
Can‘t wait for XDMS.

We can take a look which tracks are causing that.

 

[Blue58]

We can take a look which tracks are causing that.

Would you believe it’s finally stopped spinning (sod’s law) after adding some more Qobuz titles fresh this morning. Probably got stuck in a loop or something.
cheers
Blue58

 

[EuroDriver]

Interesting video on coupled ‘vibrations’ or ‘oscillations’

Similar effects in audio?

QuantumWave

OMG what a revelation / insight

There have been unexplainable consistent observations over the past 5 years which have stummped us, and this now strongly suggests the mechanism by which these audible effects develop

Bravo, thank you, thank you, thank you