Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Kris]

Hi Kris,

some years ago I removed all fuses inside the cases and replaced the internal mains wiring from the mains inlet to the transformer with AWG 11 copper. The mains inlets were replaced with Neutrik Powercon 32A.
I had no single issue and get much more PRAT, slam, dynamics, the maximum undistorted volume is much higher, simply more fun

Matt

this sounds attractive Matt and I understand why you are doing it
but it is very dangerous if something goes wrong.
Fuse is designed for the grear safety and for our safety . it is mandatory thing in every component,
You also void all devices worranty and brake home/ personal insurance requirements if something happens.
I would personally never do that or advice to do it.
Best
K

 

[matthias]

this sounds attractive Matt and I understand why you are doing it
but it is very dangerous if something goes wrong.
Fuse is designed for the grear safety and for our safety . it is mandatory thing in every component,
You also void all devices worranty and brake home/ personal insurance requirements if something happens.
I would personally never do that or advice to do it.
Best
K

I understand your POV Kris and I would not do it during warranty. But with proper engineered gear and AWG11 ground wires inside the cases I do not think it is dangerous. Another WBF brother here, @ack bypasses these fuses as well and gets great SQ benefits.

Matt

 

[sbo6]

I understand your POV Kris and I would not do it during warranty. But with proper engineered gear and AWG11 ground wires I do not think it is dangerous. Another WBF brother here, @ack bypasses these fuses as well and gets great SQ benefits.

Matt

Somewhere someone is shaking their head in disagreement as their house burnt down due to similar acts of electrical irresponsibility. Be careful...

 

[matthias]

Be careful...

Thanks, yes I do and I would NEVER modify an Extreme.......

Matt

 

[microstrip]

(...) I had no single issue and get much more PRAT, slam, dynamics, the maximum undistorted volume is much higher, simply more fun

Matt

Are you claiming that the distortion spectra of the amplifier changed when you did the modifications, or just claiming subjective differences you perceived?

 

[matthias]

Are you claiming that the distortion spectra of the amplifier changed when you did the modifications, or just claiming subjective differences you perceived?

Subjective differences

Matt

 

[onlychild]

”But you should also be aware that these measurements are on ground / safety earth, meaning it will pas straight through and the interwinding shield is not going to help as it is connected to the same safety earth ground, and the secondary center tap of the balanced transformer is as well.”

Thats why a good grounding is important.
Lower than 2 ohm is preferable in recording studios ... and our rooms.
The more the better.
To reach that low you need a lot of backyard with many metal (cooper is best) sticks deep in the ground.
At the end of this effort you also need to be in the area that the soil is NOT very resistant.
„The Norm „ for grounding wire in my country is :
sandy or stone soil is 40 ohm
intremediate ground 20 ohm
Wetland 15 ohm
This is what we get with the house we live in.

So in short you need much better ground that most of us have at home.

If you are able to get that low grounding wire resistance ( below 2 ohm)
(and yes it is going to cost you many K of USDs Or Euros)
every component you connect to it changes very significant for good of course.
The sound is like a few levels better device in comparison to
normal grounding .

Unfortunate this low resistance creates an open door to grounding loops that might ruin all your efforts,
so be sure absolutely every single component has to grounded well.
the size of the grounding wire also plays a role here .

After 25 years of trying ”everything” In audio I got to the conclusion that Emile is right.
All we are doing In audio (analog and digital) is to modulate electricity.
So my personal main fiding is POWER AND its GROUNDING are a way more important than anything you focuse on.
Emile did it right with his Extreme. 400 kv trafo For computer !? Thausends of Euros for Caps ?!
Only top brands !
Looking at the power supply of extreme and the cost of the parts he used there
gives you a sense of what is important .

I am a big believer in grounding now after hearing what the Tripoint did to my system. My next project is to get some ground rods added next to my office to isolate the ground the Tripoint drains to because it currently drains to the same ground everything else in my house is connected to.

Still researching what's possible and what's safe so I don't burn down the house. : )

I realize that Chicago code requires all grounds to be connected to one central ground, but that would defeat the purpose.

 

[pleroma]

SGM Extreme - 6 week experience: Network revisited

It has been suggested to me that as I am bypassing the eR's "B" port, I am effectively using the eR like an FMC and would Sonore's less expensive opticalModule work as well? This is a good question and I believe others are testing this now.

More to follow...

My Extreme is in the mail and as I was trying to get caught up on this thread, I was wondering if anyone had tried the Sonore FMC into the SFP port, as compared to the ER A-side only. I plan to use the internal storage, and don't use any streaming services, so my only network input would be Roon control (and server maintenance via VNC Viewer).

Thanks.

 

[pleroma]

SGM Extreme - 6 week experience: Power (Part 2)
Line conditioners can do a good job of eliminating HF noise in mains but many are current limiting (or at least stunt dynamics) despite the manufacturer's claims to the contrary. Dan D'Agostino, for example, advises not to plug any of his amplifiers "into a power strip or power conditioner."

Of the many that I have had a chance to try, a few have stood out, largely because I did not find that they stunted dynamics. In this preferred group are the Shunyata Triton V3, SR PowerCell 12 UEF SE, AQ Niagara 7000, and the Sound Application TT-7. Within this short list, the Shunyata Triton V3 sounded the most dynamic and amps plugged into the Triton V3 actually sounded more dynamic then they did plugged into my wall (and my wall is wired with 6awg wire)
One more to follow...

This is interesting. While I can understand D'Ag's position, even Shunyata told me to leave my amps out of the Triton.

Thanks also to Roy for his indefatigable testing, mixing it up and keeping it fun.

EDIT: Caelin Gabriel has discontinued the Triton V3 and is now producing his Everest 8000T as a replacement. It will be interesting to see what new things he has to patent this time. I bought some of the V2 power cables, but not feeling so good about his doubling the price of everything.

 

[Kris]

My Extreme is in the mail and as I was trying to get caught up on this thread, I was wondering if anyone had tried the Sonore FMC into the SFP port, as compared to the ER A-side only. I plan to use the internal storage, and don't use any streaming services, so my only network input would be Roon control (and server maintenance via VNC Viewer).

Thanks.

Tried all the options and I had to agree that for the Tako exterme :
1. Sonore OM is better than Startech MC to convert the signal from switch to Optical that feeds Extreme ( both with Planet SFPs)
2. I have EtherRegen and was using it as it has SFO cage so I connected it direct feed via Planet SFP .
It works well , BUT I think it uses to much power and ER gets little hotter- everything colapses a little.
3. Ether Regen is EXCELLENT if you use it as w A-A side Switch only without use of SFP cage.
to convert the signal from EtherRegen (copper to fiber) use Sonore optical module.
4. The B side of the ER is great only if your system is lower quality ( DIY servers , totaldac server)
When it comes to Taiko extreme use A side only. It sounds a way better,

Last thing
5. Many here say that addition of the Jcat Telegartner M12 gold from MARCIN is a must and I am willing to give it a chance soon.
That might be the ultimate solution especially few will test chaining the TWO m12 to test if it boosts the SQ ,

 

[matthias]

Tried all the options and I had to agree that for the Tako exterme :
1. Sonore OM is better than Startech MC to convert the signal from switch to Optical that feeds Extreme ( both with Planet SFPs)
2. I have EtherRegen and was using it as it has SFO cage so I connected it direct feed via Planet SFP .
It works well , BUT I think it uses to much power and ER gets little hotter- everything colapses a little.
3. Ether Regen is EXCELLENT if you use it as w A-A side Switch only without use of SFP cage.
to convert the signal from EtherRegen (copper to fiber) use Sonore optical module.
4. The B side of the ER is great only if your system is lower quality ( DIY servers , totaldac server)
When it comes to Taiko extreme use A side only. It sounds a way better,

Last thing
5. Many here say that addition of the Jcat Telegartner M12 gold from MARCIN is a must and I am willing to give it a chance soon.
That might be the ultimate solution especially few will test chaining the TWO m12 to test if it boosts the SQ ,

Kris,
so in a direct comparison OM is superior to ER as FMC?
Further, did you directly compare
OM fiber into Extreme
vs
ER A-A-side copper into Extreme?

Thanks

Matt

 

[pleroma]

Tried all the options and I had to agree that for the Tako exterme :
1. Sonore OM is better than Startech MC to convert the signal from switch to Optical that feeds Extreme ( both with Planet SFPs)
2. I have EtherRegen and was using it as it has SFO cage so I connected it direct feed via Planet SFP .
It works well , BUT I think it uses to much power and ER gets little hotter- everything colapses a little.
3. Ether Regen is EXCELLENT if you use it as w A-A side Switch only without use of SFP cage.
to convert the signal from EtherRegen (copper to fiber) use Sonore optical module.
4. The B side of the ER is great only if your system is lower quality ( DIY servers , totaldac server)
When it comes to Taiko extreme use A side only. It sounds a way better,

Last thing
5. Many here say that addition of the Jcat Telegartner M12 gold from MARCIN is a must and I am willing to give it a chance soon.
That might be the ultimate solution especially few will test chaining the TWO m12 to test if it boosts the SQ ,

Thanks Kris, much appreciated. My Sonore OM runs quite warm as well.

 

[dminches]

4. The B side of the ER is great only if your system is lower quality ( DIY servers , totaldac server)

In how many systems have you heard the ER? I think this is a really broad statement.

 

[Mobiusman]

The role of my system during this very strange time is so different than anything I could have imagined. A bit of backstory for those who do not follow every facet of this thread, is that while assembling my bucket list system before I retire from my job as a psychiatrist and addiction medicine specialist a week from tomorrow, a truly massive voltage surge took out the 1000 watt plate amp in one of my VSA Ultra 9’s, and also took out the 15” rear firing subwoofer by turning the coil/motor into an ingot. Fortunately Leif Swanson, the designer, was here visiting, and helping Mike Fremer set up some VSA Ultra 55”s for review for Stereophile. The plan was he would return in a week or two with a new amp and sub. But then the lockdown happened,

When I am not sweating what has to be done in the next week before I retire at the end of the day on the 30th , I take some time to sit down and rock out to my system, with VSA/ Endeavor E3 Mk 2 from my bedroom system filling in for the disabled Ultra 9”s to promote my shift to a much better and happier mindset.

Granted I have a real good engine making the E3 Mk2”s reinforced by some rear forward facing JL F-112’s, driven by VAC Tube equipment, an MSB Reference DAC connected through a MasterBuilt Ultra USB cable to a Taiko Extreme server and of course through a full loom of MB Ultra cabling and PC’s, sound just amazing and get me totally out of my head.

All I can say is thank you to Damon, Leif, Kevin, Nick, Vince and Emile for making my balanced and blue printed motor purr at 100 db+ sessions dancing around in my living room as I am locked down and feeling much better because the music throughout all aspects of my sizeable room, has generated a shift to it's time to dance and smile because the music is so wonderful

(Try Jean Michel Jarre C’est La Vie, and Chris Rea, Texas as the first two tracks to get the party going.

Can’t wait for the 9’s, seeing Leif again and going out in my boat on Barnegat Bay where we can socially distance.

 

[Leif S]

The role of my system during this very strange time is so different than anything I could have imagined. A bit of backstory for those who do not follow every facet of this thread, is that while assembling my bucket list system before I retire from my job as a psychiatrist and addiction medicine specialist a week from tomorrow, a truly massive voltage surge took out the 1000 watt plate amp in one of my VSA Ultra 9’s, and also took out the 15” rear firing subwoofer by turning the coil/motor into an ingot. Fortunately Leif Swanson, the designer, was here visiting, and helping Mike Fremer set up some VSA Ultra 55”s for review for Stereophile. The plan was he would return in a week or two with a new amp and sub. But then the lockdown happened,

It is a trying time for me beyond retiring from the job that I do better than anything else I have ever done to date, and has taken almost every waking hour of my life for the past 8-10 years. But add to that that I was politically forced to retire because what I consider impressive and highly valuable and effective treatment approaches is too far “out of the box”, for the Medical Board, that has no mental health or addiction medicine knowledge. Color me “unacceptable”, but now is the time to address my fairly severe chronic post-concussion syndrome from a mountain biking accident..

I am a fighter for what I believe in, and once retired and working on what is sadly a massively negative influence on my work, I will put forth my best effort to recover from this tragic and mean scenario. When I am not sweating what has to be done in the next week before I turn over my license at the end of the day on the 30th , I take some time to sit down and rock out to my system, with VSA/ Endeavor E3 Mk 2 from my bedroom system filling in for the disabled Ultra 9”s to promote my shift to a much better and happier mindset.

Granted I have a real good engine making the E3 Mk2”s reinforced by some rear forward facing JL F-112’s, driven by VAC Tube equipment, an MSB Reference DAC connected through a MasterBuilt Ultra USB cable to a Taiko Extreme server and of course through a full loom of MB Ultra cabling and PC’s, sound just amazing and get me totally out of my frustration and anger with the Board.

All I can say is thank you to Damon, Leif, Kevin, Nick, Vince and Emile for making my balanced and blue printed motor purr at 100 db+ sessions dancing around in my living room as I am locked down and feeling much better because the music throughout all aspects of my sizeable room, has generated a shift to it time to dance and smile because the music is so wonderful

(Try Jean Michel Jarre C’est La Vie, and Chris Rea, Texas as the first to tracks to get the party going.

Can’t wait for the 9’s, seeing Leif again and going out in my boat on Barnegat Bay where we can socially distance.

We will get those up and running first chance we get my friend. Feel horrible that I haven't been able to do that and look forward to spending time with you and going out on the boat.. I am very happy though that you have a pair of and get to pound the shit out of the E-3MkII's though lol. They really love the VAC Statement electronics. Every now and then I put them back in my system just for fun cause they will bang the shit out of a big room.

 

[Mobiusman]

We will get those up and running first chance we get my friend. Feel horrible that I haven't been able to do that and look forward to spending time with you and going out on the boat.. I am very happy though that you have a pair of and get to pound the shit out of the E-3MkII's though lol. They really love the VAC Statement electronics. Every now and then I put them back in my system just for fun cause they will bang the shit out of a big room.

SIMILAR MINDS OR TASTE IN SPEAKERS AND SOUND THINK ALIKE

 

[musicfirst1]

Pant, pant, huff, huff....
Well I'm halfway through this monster thread (88 pages down, 88 to go), and a question occurred to me Emile, hopefully it hasn't already been asked. Can you provide some digital reference recordings that you use? Especially those that test the limits of the Extremes' and your reference digital's capabilities?

 

[heebrog]

I might have missed it but have been waiting for Emile to share his favourite soundtrack test tracks he mentioned many, many posts ago!

 

[Kris]

Kris,
so in a direct comparison OM is superior to ER as FMC?
Further, did you directly compare
OM fiber into Extreme
vs
ER A-A-side copper into Extreme?

Thanks

Matt

Good question,
If you are using ONE Ethernet copper into ER and only one optical out direct to Extreme they both get very close , but OM is little bit better any way.
The best option is when you use ER as a switch only copper- copper with ONLY A side 1g ports and add SONORE OM to do the optical conversion.
Alex from Uptone was explaining that more of the devices you plug in the ER they SHARE the same clock so it makes sense .
Sonore OM has only one in and fibre out so it is clear that the clock is used for ONE conversion only.
If you ask your ER to work as a switch AND as an Media converter and do the flip/flop thing to the B side it is clear that the clock and procesor has much more to do.

ALso ER gets MUCH MORE warm than Sonore OM.

Dont get me wrong . I like them both OM and ER a lot, because they do a great job when they work together.

 

[Kris]

Alwyas direct optical to my Extreme