Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

With respect to the Taiko Extreme how do you connect it to your DAC

  • USB

    Votes: 41 73.2%
  • Ethernet

    Votes: 9 16.1%
  • Both USB and Ethernet

    Votes: 4 7.1%
  • AES/EBU

    Votes: 3 5.4%
  • Dual AES/EBU

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 4 7.1%

  • Total voters
    56

joaovieira

Well-Known Member
Feb 16, 2013
230
89
110
Brazil
When I owned a Sonore Optical Rendu a LPS made a huge difference on SQ. And the circuits are completed separated. The sound was flat and no bass. When I put the LPS it got so much better.
of course nothing close to what I have now, the SGM.
 
May 30, 2010
16,460
1,358
420
Portugal

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,298
1,506
210
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Can we assume that the copper cable is connected to your local router provided by the Ethernet supplier and the fiber optics to the Extreme?
“Unfortunately” the other way around. I did test both ways. More detail to follow.
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
1,216
932
210
Well today I finally had the time to listen to the Innuos Statement and the SGM Extreme through the same system with everything identical including the same LAN cable, network, Totaldac D-12, etc. The only proviso is that it was not a system that i am very familiar with. All music was streamed using Tidal as that is likely to be an oft used source now that I have fibre optic broadband at home. Previously my 6MBPS broadband would hiccup, cough and regurgitate every minute or so whilst streaming.

Extreme:

I will be blatantly honest here. It didn't sound great. What didn't I like? The sound was a little harsh sounding. Resolution was very high and I could hear lots of minute details on the songs that I normally wouldn't hear. My Sooloos at home is the not the last word in resolution and it is pretty old too. The harshness worried me. Now I should state that the dealer only opened the doors 5 minutes before i started listening so may be it needed warming up. Magnificat by Kim Andre Arnesen, one of my perennial favourites had a touch of screechiness about it with an accentuated treble. I move onto Paranoid Eyes by Pink Floyd in the Final Cut, my favourite PF album. Clear as I have ever heard it. You could hear Roger Waters licking his lips but where was the warmth that I like? May be, i thought, the extreme is too neutral for me. Too clear and perfect for those who like analytical hifi. I listened to another host of songs and then we switched over to the Statement.

Statement:

The warmth came flooding back. I felt like i was home. Words sounded more like real people whereas before they sounded almost mechanical (I exaggerate here of course). It was relaxing but there was something missing too. Resolution was down, that was certain. Were notes rolled off a little? It was certainly richer and more dense. Coloured? May be, may be not? I don't mind coloured at all. If i like the sound, i like the sound. To me too many people worry about reproducing the real thing. IMHO this is never going to happen anyway so you might as well get the sound you enjoy. To hell with realism.

Extreme second round:

To me you can't compare two things just once. You have to go back to the original thing and listen again. After hearing the Statement now the extreme made more sense. The sound wasn't thin anymore, voices were realistic. Bryn Terfel had meat on his bones again which were missing from the first round. No it wasn't as tonally rich as the Statement but neither was it as disappointing as i had feared whilst listening the first time. This sounds like damning praise. It is not. The bass was prodigious. I realised how much had been missing from the Statement. Do i care? Not too much. I am not chasing rainbows and I don't need to hear every last detail. But it was clear how much more info was coming from the Extreme. The sound was pretty different from the first round and a big improvement.

Conclusions: Both are excellent. The Innuos is a relative bargain at less than half the price of the Extreme but the Extreme takes the biscuit on this audition. I could honestly be happy with either. What a great time to be server hunting!:)
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,298
1,506
210
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Hi Howiebrou,

Thanks for sharing! If you'd like to dial down the resolution a bit you can bypass Jplay by switching zones in Roon. Around 20% of the Extreme owners prefer the softer, less detailed and direct presentation of that. This also provides a degree of voicing, brighter versus darker.
 
Likes: onlychild

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
3,614
3,193
385
Bangkok
Well today I finally had the time to listen to the Innuos Statement and the SGM Extreme through the same system with everything identical including the same LAN cable, network, Totaldac D-12, etc. The only proviso is that it was not a system that i am very familiar with. All music was streamed using Tidal as that is likely to be an oft used source now that I have fibre optic broadband at home. Previously my 6MBPS broadband would hiccup, cough and regurgitate every minute or so whilst streaming.

Extreme:

I will be blatantly honest here. It didn't sound great. What didn't I like? The sound was a little harsh sounding. Resolution was very high and I could hear lots of minute details on the songs that I normally wouldn't hear. My Sooloos at home is the not the last word in resolution and it is pretty old too. The harshness worried me. Now I should state that the dealer only opened the doors 5 minutes before i started listening so may be it needed warming up. Magnificat by Kim Andre Arnesen, one of my perennial favourites had a touch of screechiness about it with an accentuated treble. I move onto Paranoid Eyes by Pink Floyd in the Final Cut, my favourite PF album. Clear as I have ever heard it. You could hear Roger Waters licking his lips but where was the warmth that I like? May be, i thought, the extreme is too neutral for me. Too clear and perfect for those who like analytical hifi. I listened to another host of songs and then we switched over to the Statement.

Statement:

The warmth came flooding back. I felt like i was home. Words sounded more like real people whereas before they sounded almost mechanical (I exaggerate here of course). It was relaxing but there was something missing too. Resolution was down, that was certain. Were notes rolled off a little? It was certainly richer and more dense. Coloured? May be, may be not? I don't mind coloured at all. If i like the sound, i like the sound. To me too many people worry about reproducing the real thing. IMHO this is never going to happen anyway so you might as well get the sound you enjoy. To hell with realism.

Extreme second round:

To me you can't compare two things just once. You have to go back to the original thing and listen again. After hearing the Statement now the extreme made more sense. The sound wasn't thin anymore, voices were realistic. Bryn Terfel had meat on his bones again which were missing from the first round. No it wasn't as tonally rich as the Statement but neither was it as disappointing as i had feared whilst listening the first time. This sounds like damning praise. It is not. The bass was prodigious. I realised how much had been missing from the Statement. Do i care? Not too much. I am not chasing rainbows and I don't need to hear every last detail. But it was clear how much more info was coming from the Extreme. The sound was pretty different from the first round and a big improvement.

Conclusions: Both are excellent. The Innuos is a relative bargain at less than half the price of the Extreme but the Extreme takes the biscuit on this audition. I could honestly be happy with either. What a great time to be server hunting!:)
Howie. Did you have a fat juicy burger right before the second round of Extreme? The first round you must have been hungry dizzy. ;)
 

Hieukm

Active Member
Oct 2, 2016
217
53
43
Well today I finally had the time to listen to the Innuos Statement and the SGM Extreme through the same system with everything identical including the same LAN cable, network, Totaldac D-12, etc. The only proviso is that it was not a system that i am very familiar with. All music was streamed using Tidal as that is likely to be an oft used source now that I have fibre optic broadband at home. Previously my 6MBPS broadband would hiccup, cough and regurgitate every minute or so whilst streaming.

Extreme:

I will be blatantly honest here. It didn't sound great. What didn't I like? The sound was a little harsh sounding. Resolution was very high and I could hear lots of minute details on the songs that I normally wouldn't hear. My Sooloos at home is the not the last word in resolution and it is pretty old too. The harshness worried me. Now I should state that the dealer only opened the doors 5 minutes before i started listening so may be it needed warming up. Magnificat by Kim Andre Arnesen, one of my perennial favourites had a touch of screechiness about it with an accentuated treble. I move onto Paranoid Eyes by Pink Floyd in the Final Cut, my favourite PF album. Clear as I have ever heard it. You could hear Roger Waters licking his lips but where was the warmth that I like? May be, i thought, the extreme is too neutral for me. Too clear and perfect for those who like analytical hifi. I listened to another host of songs and then we switched over to the Statement.

Statement:

The warmth came flooding back. I felt like i was home. Words sounded more like real people whereas before they sounded almost mechanical (I exaggerate here of course). It was relaxing but there was something missing too. Resolution was down, that was certain. Were notes rolled off a little? It was certainly richer and more dense. Coloured? May be, may be not? I don't mind coloured at all. If i like the sound, i like the sound. To me too many people worry about reproducing the real thing. IMHO this is never going to happen anyway so you might as well get the sound you enjoy. To hell with realism.

Extreme second round:

To me you can't compare two things just once. You have to go back to the original thing and listen again. After hearing the Statement now the extreme made more sense. The sound wasn't thin anymore, voices were realistic. Bryn Terfel had meat on his bones again which were missing from the first round. No it wasn't as tonally rich as the Statement but neither was it as disappointing as i had feared whilst listening the first time. This sounds like damning praise. It is not. The bass was prodigious. I realised how much had been missing from the Statement. Do i care? Not too much. I am not chasing rainbows and I don't need to hear every last detail. But it was clear how much more info was coming from the Extreme. The sound was pretty different from the first round and a big improvement.

Conclusions: Both are excellent. The Innuos is a relative bargain at less than half the price of the Extreme but the Extreme takes the biscuit on this audition. I could honestly be happy with either. What a great time to be server hunting!:)
So Jplay is making things brighter and more resolution? Maybe thats why the Innous Statement also lack resolution and brightness? How was the soundstage?
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,298
1,506
210
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
So Jplay is making things brighter and more resolution? Maybe thats why the Innous Statement also lack resolution and brightness? How was the soundstage?
Yes Jplay increases apparent resolution, precision and focus which in turn can lead to a subjective brighter presentation. Or it's just the other way around as slightly tilting up the frequency response may give you that impression too. You can also use it as a dial to finetune system balance.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,037
2,012
433
E. England
Well today I finally had the time to listen to the Innuos Statement and the SGM Extreme through the same system with everything identical including the same LAN cable, network, Totaldac D-12, etc. The only proviso is that it was not a system that i am very familiar with. All music was streamed using Tidal as that is likely to be an oft used source now that I have fibre optic broadband at home. Previously my 6MBPS broadband would hiccup, cough and regurgitate every minute or so whilst streaming.

Extreme:

I will be blatantly honest here. It didn't sound great. What didn't I like? The sound was a little harsh sounding. Resolution was very high and I could hear lots of minute details on the songs that I normally wouldn't hear. My Sooloos at home is the not the last word in resolution and it is pretty old too. The harshness worried me. Now I should state that the dealer only opened the doors 5 minutes before i started listening so may be it needed warming up. Magnificat by Kim Andre Arnesen, one of my perennial favourites had a touch of screechiness about it with an accentuated treble. I move onto Paranoid Eyes by Pink Floyd in the Final Cut, my favourite PF album. Clear as I have ever heard it. You could hear Roger Waters licking his lips but where was the warmth that I like? May be, i thought, the extreme is too neutral for me. Too clear and perfect for those who like analytical hifi. I listened to another host of songs and then we switched over to the Statement.

Statement:

The warmth came flooding back. I felt like i was home. Words sounded more like real people whereas before they sounded almost mechanical (I exaggerate here of course). It was relaxing but there was something missing too. Resolution was down, that was certain. Were notes rolled off a little? It was certainly richer and more dense. Coloured? May be, may be not? I don't mind coloured at all. If i like the sound, i like the sound. To me too many people worry about reproducing the real thing. IMHO this is never going to happen anyway so you might as well get the sound you enjoy. To hell with realism.

Extreme second round:

To me you can't compare two things just once. You have to go back to the original thing and listen again. After hearing the Statement now the extreme made more sense. The sound wasn't thin anymore, voices were realistic. Bryn Terfel had meat on his bones again which were missing from the first round. No it wasn't as tonally rich as the Statement but neither was it as disappointing as i had feared whilst listening the first time. This sounds like damning praise. It is not. The bass was prodigious. I realised how much had been missing from the Statement. Do i care? Not too much. I am not chasing rainbows and I don't need to hear every last detail. But it was clear how much more info was coming from the Extreme. The sound was pretty different from the first round and a big improvement.

Conclusions: Both are excellent. The Innuos is a relative bargain at less than half the price of the Extreme but the Extreme takes the biscuit on this audition. I could honestly be happy with either. What a great time to be server hunting!:)
Howie, do you put any of the ice melting on your opinion of the Extreme down to the system warming up? I mean, by the time you heard the Statement, it had warmed up on that first Extreme burst. And then Extreme second time around benefitted from even more.
 
Likes: howiebrou

Kris

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
250
104
43
Well today I finally had the time to listen to the Innuos Statement and the SGM Extreme through the same system with everything identical including the same LAN cable, network, Totaldac D-12, etc. The only proviso is that it was not a system that i am very familiar with. All music was streamed using Tidal as that is likely to be an oft used source now that I have fibre optic broadband at home. Previously my 6MBPS broadband would hiccup, cough and regurgitate every minute or so whilst streaming.

Extreme:

I will be blatantly honest here. It didn't sound great. What didn't I like? The sound was a little harsh sounding. Resolution was very high and I could hear lots of minute details on the songs that I normally wouldn't hear. My Sooloos at home is the not the last word in resolution and it is pretty old too. The harshness worried me. Now I should state that the dealer only opened the doors 5 minutes before i started listening so may be it needed warming up. Magnificat by Kim Andre Arnesen, one of my perennial favourites had a touch of screechiness about it with an accentuated treble. I move onto Paranoid Eyes by Pink Floyd in the Final Cut, my favourite PF album. Clear as I have ever heard it. You could hear Roger Waters licking his lips but where was the warmth that I like? May be, i thought, the extreme is too neutral for me. Too clear and perfect for those who like analytical hifi. I listened to another host of songs and then we switched over to the Statement.

Statement:

The warmth came flooding back. I felt like i was home. Words sounded more like real people whereas before they sounded almost mechanical (I exaggerate here of course). It was relaxing but there was something missing too. Resolution was down, that was certain. Were notes rolled off a little? It was certainly richer and more dense. Coloured? May be, may be not? I don't mind coloured at all. If i like the sound, i like the sound. To me too many people worry about reproducing the real thing. IMHO this is never going to happen anyway so you might as well get the sound you enjoy. To hell with realism.

Extreme second round:

To me you can't compare two things just once. You have to go back to the original thing and listen again. After hearing the Statement now the extreme made more sense. The sound wasn't thin anymore, voices were realistic. Bryn Terfel had meat on his bones again which were missing from the first round. No it wasn't as tonally rich as the Statement but neither was it as disappointing as i had feared whilst listening the first time. This sounds like damning praise. It is not. The bass was prodigious. I realised how much had been missing from the Statement. Do i care? Not too much. I am not chasing rainbows and I don't need to hear every last detail. But it was clear how much more info was coming from the Extreme. The sound was pretty different from the first round and a big improvement.

Conclusions: Both are excellent. The Innuos is a relative bargain at less than half the price of the Extreme but the Extreme takes the biscuit on this audition. I could honestly be happy with either. What a great time to be server hunting!:)
I suspect it was powered down for night.
There is totally different presentation after warming up.
Please do it again in the afternoon or before they close the door.
Also if it was moved it needs some time to get back to its top performance.

Also as Emile stated there are many settings you can do to mach your preference.
After trying many settings I can say you can get everyting you want and do not drop anything from the top performance that Extreme has.
 
Likes: howiebrou

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,298
1,506
210
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Also as Emile stated there are many settings you can do to mach your preference.
That is one of the interesting aspects of the USB interface, and why I have a preference for using it. You can tune the USB driver stack which affects the presentation. The mentioned Jplay software which comes pre installed with the Extreme provides a graphical interface to do so. AES/EBU is what it is, Ethernet can be tuned to a certain degree but USB is the only interface capable of affecting the presentation to a significant degree beyond switching interconnects. It is a completely optional feature, but loved by many, including me myself and I.
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,870
1,086
238
Hong Kong
Howie. Did you have a fat juicy burger right before the second round of Extreme? The first round you must have been hungry dizzy. ;)
Hello Tango,
You are right!
The Kabo Burger which is 10m away from the building of the HK Innuos & SGM dealer is IMO one of the best hamburger restaurants in HK.
https://m.facebook.com/kabo.burger

Hello Howie,
You like hamburgers? :p
 

Taiko Audio

Industry Expert
Feb 10, 2017
1,298
1,506
210
The Netherlands
taikoaudio.com
Howie. Did you have a fat juicy burger right before the second round of Extreme? The first round you must have been hungry dizzy. ;)
Fantastic fantastic fantastic fantastic :)

I'd argue the first part of a listening session to an unfamiliar system comes with a degree of adjustment to the system sound signature.
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
1,216
932
210
Hi Howiebrou,

Thanks for sharing! If you'd like to dial down the resolution a bit you can bypass Jplay by switching zones in Roon. Around 20% of the Extreme owners prefer the softer, less detailed and direct presentation of that. This also provides a degree of voicing, brighter versus darker.
Thanks Emile. I'm not sure if that would be needed in my system which is not quite as neutral as the Dealer's but it's good to know that can be done.

howie
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
1,216
932
210
Howie. Did you have a fat juicy burger right before the second round of Extreme? The first round you must have been hungry dizzy. ;)
Yes Tang. Must be the mouth watering. In all honesty i would discard the first round as everything was just coming on.
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
1,216
932
210
Fantastic fantastic fantastic fantastic :)

I'd argue the first part of a listening session to an unfamiliar system comes with a degree of adjustment to the system sound signature.
I would completely agree. The dealer's system is very different to mine in terms of presentation and it is not possible to separate the sound of the extreme from the influence of other components on the first listen. After I listened to the Statement and went back to the Extreme, I was able to tease the difference out with a very different result as I mentioned.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,037
2,012
433
E. England
Howie, what USB was used at the demo? It looks like at the level of Extreme, USB choice is as critical as the choice of cart on a top tt is.

You can go Lyra versus Koetsu voicing.
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
1,216
932
210
Howie, do you put any of the ice melting on your opinion of the Extreme down to the system warming up? I mean, by the time you heard the Statement, it had warmed up on that first Extreme burst. And then Extreme second time around benefitted from even more.
Yes Marc. Absolutely. Not only that but i had no real idea what the system sounded like at all. That's the problem with dealer demos but we got there in the end.;)
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
11,037
2,012
433
E. England
Hey i didn't see that!:mad:
Blood sugar levels, and endorphin rush from melt-in-the-mouth burger quality, could make all the difference going in to a top class audio demo.
 

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