System Upgrade - Report and Feedback

[Peter Bomberg]

@Tuckers luck I suspect it may be the room layout and speaker interaction that is working in my favour, everything other than the low frequency response at low volumes is fantastic from a sound quality perspective.

@Lee Agree 100%

More work on minor details today, the edge guard is done (could be better but for now it will do (we have roomba's and even thought I mark the area as a keep out zone they have amnesia at times. The shoe carpet has been trimmed and placed.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Without the 805's in the picture

 

[Creditingkarma]

Still a work in progress, and the B&W will go to my office together with the NAD M33.

First impressions visually stunning, accusticly it's impossible to identify the source, close your eyes and the soundscape is 20ft wide and 15ft high. Sound projects much further out than the speaker placement.. Turn it up to 65 and you smile, my wife is out so I might try 70 today but I can't imagine ever going to 106.

I need to figure out how to adjust the volume as the Bluesound (Spotify for my wife) wont pass the volume the Cascade is at (ie can't raise above) and the renderer via Roon is way louder (lowered the default to 60)

I am also trying to figure out how to silence the clicking when it changes volume or source (Tidal changes every second song).


View attachment 141199

There is not really a way to silence the clicking. The clicking is the relays in the volume control. This is the way that the volume is regulated. Nice system I hope that you enjoy it for many years to come.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

There is not really a way to silence the clicking. The clicking is the relays in the volume control. This is the way that the volume is regulated. Nice system I hope that you enjoy it for many years to come.

it is both a nice system and yes part of the volume control. I'm getting used to it, the real issue isn't the volume adjustment its more between tracks but it seems to only occur at times, likely MQA to CD switching.

And in some way it's both a happy and sad moment. I decided top upgrade the speaker cables to AQ Dragon but that means there are no more tweaks/improvements left!

 

[Tangram]

View attachment 141249


Without the 805's in the picture

So nice it’s as though you designed the look of the room for the speakers!

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Hmmmm you might be correct

You might also be correct in stating some of us suffer from acute attention to minute details

And everyone that knows me would smile and say that is an understatement.

But the room looks great and the sound is already great, this weekend tuning the sub ands in Mar switching to AQ Dragon speaker cables. The system is improving as it burns in requiring some adjustments to get the most of it. When I first installed it I felt the 100-200Hz range was thin at low volume so I pulled them closer to the wall. it worked great but as they burn in they are now showing a bump at 125, so out they went 1" and 1.5" from the fireplace. Bump gone and sub crossover needs to be adjusted.

 

[Tuckers]

it is both a nice system and yes part of the volume control. I'm getting used to it, the real issue isn't the volume adjustment its more between tracks but it seems to only occur at times, likely MQA to CD switching.

And in some way it's both a happy and sad moment. I decided top upgrade the speaker cables to AQ Dragon but that means there are no more tweaks/improvements left!

I grew to love the clicking of the volume control on a preamp I had. I miss it. It's great feedback on what my volume is doing. Comparing two tracks with different volume? Hearing that three click when I switch and change volume let's me know that it's adjusted right. My current preamp also clicks, but it's very faint to my ears, and I can't hear it most of the time.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Taping is complete, unless you look close it's not visible.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Next update, so after several days of Christmas music I have realized what several people told me, I am used to room correction SW being a needed tool, but with this system there is absolutely no need.

I now have a a good system in my office (NAD M33, B&W 805D4, Kimber TC12, REL TX/7) and the room is much smaller so it's a good balance, but it imply sounds like a poor distant cousin! And the reality is my office setup is pretty darn good! The MSB system, paired with the Extelon using AQ cabling and clean power is simply amazing!

 

[Bliss Hifi]

@Creditingkarma I'm interested in learning more from past owners who have heard both the Estelon XB Diamond and the X Diamond, and you mentioned that there is a noticeable jump in performance. Can you elaborate on this?

Did you jump from the XB Diamond MKII to the X Diamond MKII?

What is the size of your room?

What did you experience on the differences between the two?

Thank you!

 

[Peter Bomberg]

@Creditingkarma I'm interested in learning more from past owners who have heard both the Estelon XB Diamond and the X Diamond, and you mentioned that there is a noticeable jump in performance. Can you elaborate on this?

Did you jump from the XB Diamond MKII to the X Diamond MKII?

What is the size of your room?

What did you experience on the differences between the two?

Thank you!

Let me give you my opinion on the XB vs. X

The soundscape is much larger with the X, the bass is tighter and the high end is much more crisp and clear

 

[Bliss Hifi]

@Peter Bomberg Did you hear both in the same room with the same equipment?

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Sadly no, I would have loved to do a side by side but same room, but massively different setup (and the X was driven by a much better system)

 

[Peter Bomberg]

So I have to say thank you to Steven from Audioville, Jamie from The Audio Experience, Vince and Jonathan from MSB, Aldo from Estelon, James/Jarrad from REL and Colin/Bryan from Ayreborn plus Garth at AudioQuest and many other that have provided great advice.

So the next steps of the evolution are in progress but I can report on a couple aspects. I replaced the Niagra 3000 with a Niagra 7000 and the impact was immediate and noticeable (I was a skeptic) I did not think the system was starved for power but apparently it was (the circuit is still 15Amp until the 1st when I will convert it to a dedicated 20) as soon as the 7000 was feeding the MSB M205's the whole low frequency response on the X Diamonds improved, tighter, faster and clearer, you can hear the plucking of a contrabass string even clearer now.

I listened to the same track several hours later and if felt even better so I will assume that Garth's give it 100hrs comment is about right and will tell you what it's like on a dedicated 20 circuit, the 3000's will now drive the REL's which will also get dedicated 20 amp circuits this week.

The REL 31's are ordered, and Aurender just released the last component (if I have to change from my MSB Renderer) The Aurender N50!

 

[agencal]

So I have to say thank you to Steven from Audioville, Jamie from The Audio Experience, Vince and Jonathan from MSB, Aldo from Estelon, James/Jarrad from REL and Colin/Bryan from Ayreborn plus Garth at AudioQuest and many other that have provided great advice.

So the next steps of the evolution are in progress but I can report on a couple aspects. I replaced the Niagra 3000 with a Niagra 7000 and the impact was immediate and noticeable (I was a skeptic) I did not think the system was starved for power but apparently it was (the circuit is still 15Amp until the 1st when I will convert it to a dedicated 20) as soon as the 7000 was feeding the MSB M205's the whole low frequency response on the X Diamonds improved, tighter, faster and clearer, you can hear the plucking of a contrabass string even clearer now.

I listened to the same track several hours later and if felt even better so I will assume that Garth's give it 100hrs comment is about right and will tell you what it's like on a dedicated 20 circuit, the 3000's will now drive the REL's which will also get dedicated 20 amp circuits this week.

The REL 31's are ordered, and Aurender just released the last component (if I have to change from my MSB Renderer) The Aurender N50!

Hi ,
I am about to decide for X diamond mk2 or xb diamond mk2. I am mostly after a holographic 3d soundstage and layering. I can re arrange my electronics to complement the speaker. Dealer has a xb diamond but not x so i do not have the chance to compare them. Any opinions? My room is 7m x 6m which is 42sqm.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

Hi ,
I am about to decide for X diamond mk2 or xb diamond mk2. I am mostly after a holographic 3d soundstage and layering. I can re arrange my electronics to complement the speaker. Dealer has a xb diamond but not x so i do not have the chance to compare them. Any opinions? My room is 7m x 6m which is 42sqm.

I felt the X diamonds gave the soundstage more depth, width and height (ie wholistically a better soundstage)

 

[Bliss Hifi]

Hi ,
I am about to decide for X diamond mk2 or xb diamond mk2. I am mostly after a holographic 3d soundstage and layering. I can re arrange my electronics to complement the speaker. Dealer has a xb diamond but not x so i do not have the chance to compare them. Any opinions? My room is 7m x 6m which is 42sqm.

Hi… authorized Estelon dealer here. Your room size is right on the border of either model. The room that I use to display XB Diamond Mk II are similar in dimension, but slightly larger: 19ft wide, 24ft deep, but the ceiling slants up to 18ft and is open to the rear, so it is a much harder space to fill. In my case, the speaker does a fantastic job of filling the space to moderate to loud listening levels (85-90dB), but I strongly believe the X Diamond Mk II would be a significant step up in delivering with more gravitas on the low end. Having many other high end speakers to compare to, the smaller midrange of the XB compared to the X does not make it suffer in the room, but I would love to be able to upgrade that space with the X Diamond Mk II simply for the lows.

If your room is enclosed and does not have very high ceilings, the XB Diamond Mk II may very well fill your space, but if budget allows, you won’t go wrong with the X Diamond Mk II - they will not be too big for your space.

What amplification and power foundation would you drive them with?

 

[agencal]

T

Hi… authorized Estelon dealer here. Your room size is right on the border of either model. The room that I use to display XB Diamond Mk II are similar in dimension, but slightly larger: 19ft wide, 24ft deep, but the ceiling slants up to 18ft and is open to the rear, so it is a much harder space to fill. In my case, the speaker does a fantastic job of filling the space to moderate to loud listening levels (85-90dB), but I strongly believe the X Diamond Mk II would be a significant step up in delivering with more gravitas on the low end. Having many other high end speakers to compare to, the smaller midrange of the XB compared to the X does not make it suffer in the room, but I would love to be able to upgrade that space with the X Diamond Mk II simply for the lows.

If your room is enclosed and does not have very high ceilings, the XB Diamond Mk II may very well fill your space, but if budget allows, you won’t go wrong with the X Diamond Mk II - they will not be too big for your space.

What amplification and power foundation would you drive them with?

Thank you, great insights.
I ordered X diamond Signature in black today. Have to wait 1 month now
I currently have Goldmund Telos 690 integrated It is more muusical and deep soundstage than my older ch L1 M1.1 combı and i love it but Goldmund says this is not an amp for driving intent empedns drops. So maybe i need to change it if it has a very problematic emledance curve. My dealer has accuphase, msb, mola mola, gryphon etc.
What can you say about the amps suits well ?

 

[Bliss Hifi]

T

Thank you, great insights.
I ordered X diamond Signature in black today. Have to wait 1 month now
I currently have Goldmund Telos 690 integrated It is more muusical and deep soundstage than my older ch L1 M1.1 combı and i love it but Goldmund says this is not an amp for driving intent empedns drops. So maybe i need to change it if it has a very problematic emledance curve. My dealer has accuphase, msb, mola mola, gryphon etc.
What can you say about the amps suits well ?

I would strongly agree that the richer Goldmund sound will be a much better fit tonally than the ultra-neutral to analytical sound that the CH Precision amps deliver. There’s a chance you will be wanting more control from the amplifier as you turn up the volume, but you should try it out first with the speakers before jumping to other amps. The X is actually easier to drive than the XB (3.5 Ohm minimum at 50Hz vs the 2 Ohm of the XB), so I would worry less about the impedance dips and overall pay attention to the level of control you can retain as you turn it up. Of course, better amps will enable the speakers to perform above and beyond.

As for the amp brands your dealer has, I wouldn’t hesitate to pair the speakers up with Gryphon. Tonally they are very muscular and Class A sounding, which is very similar to how Estelon and Vitus pair so well together. Mola Mola would be last on my list of the brands that you mentioned.

 

[Peter Bomberg]

I would strongly agree that the richer Goldmund sound will be a much better fit tonally than the ultra-neutral to analytical sound that the CH Precision amps deliver. There’s a chance you will be wanting more control from the amplifier as you turn up the volume, but you should try it out first with the speakers before jumping to other amps. The X is actually easier to drive than the XB (3.5 Ohm minimum at 50Hz vs the 2 Ohm of the XB), so I would worry less about the impedance dips and overall pay attention to the level of control you can retain as you turn it up. Of course, better amps will enable the speakers to perform above and beyond.

As for the amp brands your dealer has, I wouldn’t hesitate to pair the speakers up with Gryphon. Tonally they are very muscular and Class A sounding, which is very similar to how Estelon and Vitus pair so well together. Mola Mola would be last on my list of the brands that you mentioned.

X Diamond vs Forza what amp would you suggest I have the MSB M205s running my X Diamond MKII and love it but worry they aren't enough for the Forza, so looking at the MSB M500's but welcome your thoughts.