Sublime Sound

[morricab]

What you write here assessor43 is interesting.

For the past few years I've puzzled over the notion of desire to change the sound of the primary components in one's system versus 'enhancing' or improving their sound. At what point does the latter turn into the former? At what point does one do, as assessor43 describes, more harm than good? When is a component no longer itself? And how do you come to realize that?

Far more questions than answers.

If a component is lacking or weak in some aspect, it seems that replacing it is a reasonable approach rather than trying something else to mitigate or overcome the weakness or to alter the component's basic character. Is the 'solution' to, for example, flabby mid-to-low bass a new interconnect or power cord, without which the problem remains extant? As I've noted before, a few, but very very few manufacturers believe another man's product is required by theirs to be its best.

Which raises the question, why do people modify their system to sound differently than it does natively, out of the box? Putting aside interconnects and speaker cables (because they are necessary for system operation) what are people's goals when introducing after-market power cords, exotic material electrical sockets, various platforms or materials or footers for equipment to sit on, grounding boxes, cable lifters. Etc. Replying "to sound better" seems obvious but unreflective.

For me, it was about lowering noise floor, which has had a positive effect on soundstage depth, low level resolution and image dimensionality. The gear I have already demonstrates these qualities quite well but upon trying out some different power cords and using a power regenerator I was able to achieve a significant improvement in those areas without substantially altering other qualities that were just fine as is. I did try some power cords and interconnects that shifted the tonal balance or emphasized certain frequency ranges...these were rejected and not purchased or returned if purchased without hearing (or they end up in a box of unused, unloved stuff).

For example, my colleague and I were looking at Wireworld cables quite closely as they offer good sound for the money and their interconnects and speaker cables are pretty good, I have found better (haven't tried the Platinums though) but they don't seem to add or omit much. Their power cables are another story. They profoundly changed the sound in my system for the worse. It seemingly removed detail, hardended the sound (distortions?) and messed with the timbre of instruments. I haven't heard much regarding power that did as much as these cables but not in a positive way (again, in MY system).

 

[tima]

For example, my colleague and I were looking at Wireworld cables quite closely as they offer good sound for the money and their interconnects and speaker cables are pretty good, I have found better (haven't tried the Platinums though) but they don't seem to add or omit much. Their power cables are another story. They profoundly changed the sound in my system for the worse. It seemingly removed detail, hardended the sound (distortions?) and messed with the timbre of instruments. I haven't heard much regarding power that did as much as these cables but not in a positive way (again, in MY system).

I see a lot of Wirewold wires for sale.

 

[morricab]

I see a lot of Wirewold wires for sale.

Well, they have been around for a long time...as I said I don't use them but didn't find them bad (except the aforementioned power cables).

 

[tima]

Well, they have been around for a long time...as I said I don't use them but didn't find them bad (except the aforementioned power cables).

I suppose there is virtue in doing no harm - primum nil nocere - though that does not come across as a ringing endorsement. (Not that you intended it to be.) My ideal has always been that a wire does nothing, as if the manufacturer had simply extended his circuit from one component to another - like a preamp used to be.

Given the democratization of component interfaces (a good thing, imo)., it may not be entirely possible inasmuch as everything brings its particular physical properties to the party. However, it would be interesting if manufacturers of electronic components offered their own wires for powering and connecting them together. Some endorsed assurance of house sound preserved au naturale.

 

[Lagonda]

I suppose there is virtue in doing no harm - primum nil nocere - though that does not come across as a ringing endorsement. (Not that you intended it to be.) My ideal has always been that a wire does nothing, as if the manufacturer had simply extended his circuit from one component to another - like a preamp used to be.

Given the democratization of component interfaces (a good thing, imo)., it may not be entirely possible inasmuch as everything brings its particular physical properties to the party. However, it would be interesting if manufacturers of electronic components offered their own wires for powering and connecting them together. Some endorsed assurance of house sound preserved au naturale.

I absolutely agree, if you use the cables your system was voiced with you have better chance of hearing what the designer heard when they made it. I think Gryphon offers a line a of cables, that where suppose used in the making of their gear. I have always been skeptical about the latest greatest cable improving your equipment, changing the sound yes, but improving ?

 

[howiebrou]

For me, it was about lowering noise floor, which has had a positive effect on soundstage depth, low level resolution and image dimensionality. The gear I have already demonstrates these qualities quite well but upon trying out some different power cords and using a power regenerator I was able to achieve a significant improvement in those areas without substantially altering other qualities that were just fine as is. I did try some power cords and interconnects that shifted the tonal balance or emphasized certain frequency ranges...these were rejected and not purchased or returned if purchased without hearing (or they end up in a box of unused, unloved stuff).

For example, my colleague and I were looking at Wireworld cables quite closely as they offer good sound for the money and their interconnects and speaker cables are pretty good, I have found better (haven't tried the Platinums though) but they don't seem to add or omit much. Their power cables are another story. They profoundly changed the sound in my system for the worse. It seemingly removed detail, hardended the sound (distortions?) and messed with the timbre of instruments. I haven't heard much regarding power that did as much as these cables but not in a positive way (again, in MY system).

I have a couple of pairs of Wireworld Platinum XLR interconnects. They're not bad at all and were quite inexpensive.

 

[tima]

I absolutely agree, if you use the cables your system was voiced with you have better chance of hearing what the designer heard when they made it. I think Gryphon offers a line a of cables, that where suppose used in the making of their gear. I have always been skeptical about the latest greatest cable improving your equipment, changing the sound yes, but improving ?

I'm thinking some manufacturers may tell you off-camera what they use or prefer. Sometimes you can look at who they show with, but other factors come into play with those relationships.

 

[Lagonda]

I'm thinking some manufacturers may tell you off-camera what they use or prefer. Sometimes you can look at who they show with, but other factors come into play with those relationships.

Yes often equipment will be shown with the most expensive cable that the dealer represents, even if it not necessarily the best sonic match , go figure

 

[microstrip]

I suppose there is virtue in doing no harm - primum nil nocere - though that does not come across as a ringing endorsement. (Not that you intended it to be.) My ideal has always been that a wire does nothing, as if the manufacturer had simply extended his circuit from one component to another - like a preamp used to be. (...)

Then you would also want a preamplifier that does nothing?

I have tried wiring speaker crossovers directly to monoblock amplifiers and still preferred the sound with a chosen speaker cable.

 

[wil]

I suppose there is virtue in doing no harm - primum nil nocere - though that does not come across as a ringing endorsement. (Not that you intended it to be.) My ideal has always been that a wire does nothing, as if the manufacturer had simply extended his circuit from one component to another - like a preamp used to be.

Given the democratization of component interfaces (a good thing, imo)., it may not be entirely possible inasmuch as everything brings its particular physical properties to the party. However, it would be interesting if manufacturers of electronic components offered their own wires for powering and connecting them together. Some endorsed assurance of house sound preserved au naturale.

Boenicke seems to be moving in that direction. His new class d amp has a captive power cable. Also speaker cables and a power distributor which are all made for him by LessLoss.

 

[tima]

Then you would also want a preamplifier that does nothing?

Hmmmm... If it does nothing, it would not be a preamplifier.

 

[tima]

Boenicke seems to be moving in that direction. His new class d amp has a captive power cable. Also speaker cables and a power distributor which are all made for him by LessLoss.

Interesting. I don't know who is Boenicke but it sounds like he is an example of the integration of cabling with componentry.

Pardon my self-reference, I do know Louis Motek of LessLoss through my review of his TunnelBridge interconnects. He is one of the more creative thinkers in the 'cable industry'. Funny coincidence ... the intro to that 2012 write-up is in the same vein as the post you commented on:: "Perhaps I’m old school for thinking that the job of an audio cable is to pass a signal from A to B without manipulating it or losing some part of it along the way."

Consistency - the hobgoblin of audio reviewers.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson.)

 

[microstrip]

Hmmmm... If it does nothing, it would not be a preamplifier.

Then, why would a cable be supposed to do nothing?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes often equipment will be shown with the most expensive cable that the dealer represents, even if it not necessarily the best sonic match , go figure

Its probably the best match margin wise .

 

[PeterA]

Then, why would a cable be supposed to do nothing?

Good one Micro. It is clear that a preamp is asked to facilitate input option capabilities, attenuate volume, and often provide gain. Do you want a cable to do any of that? Sometimes preamps and cables manipulate the signal.

 

[Mikem53]

Then you would also want a preamplifier that does nothing?

Or at least nothing bad.. Sometimes nothing is good, and can be expensive.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Semantics... hmmmm gotta love semantics... the great barrier (reef) to seperate us safely from understanding

 

[andromedaaudio]

Or at least nothing bad.. Sometimes nothing is good, and can be expensive.

And sometimes cheap is good and not expensive ............ CHING CHENG lol
And sometimes cheap happens to be expensive after all .
And sometimes expensive and old is very good , peters new record player.

Sorry im being philosophical .


Ps whats next peter , or are you satisfied / done ??

 

[wil]

Interesting. I don't know who is Boenicke but it sounds like he is an example of the integration of cabling with componentry.

Pardon my self-reference, I do know Louis Motek of LessLoss through my review of his TunnelBridge interconnects. He is one of the more creative thinkers in the 'cable industry'. Funny coincidence ... the intro to that 2012 write-up is in the same vein as the post you commented on:: "Perhaps I’m old school for thinking that the job of an audio cable is to pass a signal from A to B without manipulating it or losing some part of it along the way."

Consistency - the hobgoblin of audio reviewers.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson.)

Sven Boenicke of Boenicke speakers appears intent on creating his own audio ecosystem with the help of a Swiss Audio Mafia of sorts -- from DAC to Amp to Speaker and all wiring in between. Along with Louis Motek of LessLoss for wiring and power distribution/conditioning to Serge Schmidlin of Audio Consulting for collaboration on a DAC.
An ambitious plan which makes a lot of sense to me, at least on the surface.

 

[PeterA]

And sometimes cheap is good and not expensive ............ CHING CHENG lol
And sometimes cheap happens to be expensive after all .
And sometimes expensive and old is very good , peters new record player.

Sorry im being philosophical .


Ps whats next peter , or are you satisfied / done ??

Hi Andromedaaudio,

I am surely satisfied, but not done yet. There are more set up items I plan for the Micro Seiki including a second arm board and arm, plus a custom designed stainless steel plinth for the top of the rack on which to place the turntable.

After that, I plan to audition various electronics and speakers, but that is down the road. Time will tell. One step at a time.