Sublime Sound

assessor43

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2018
239
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Keith has sailed away and will not be reading this question, so I will answer for him: I use five Ching Cheng power cords that I got from David Karmeli. Of six cords I tried in my system, these were the best. The stock Chinese cords that came with my Pass Labs amplifiers came in second. They happen to also be made by Ching Cheng, but they are newer, shorter, and not hospital grade.
What is the difference in the hospital grade and the Pass Labs Ching Cheng? My McIntosh amp also came with Ching Cheng which are a little thicker than my pass labs cords. Maybe they are Hospital Grade?
 
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Labpro

Member
Apr 14, 2020
3
4
5
Boston
Love the set up, must sound amazing. Also love he Tube Traps. Many folks overlook the importance of room acoustics.
 
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wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
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@PeterA. Is there a source for the Ching Cheng power cables you and @ddk use? And is there a particular grade or model? Thanks
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
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North Shore of Boston
@PeterA. Is there a source for the Ching Cheng power cables you and @ddk use? And is there a particular grade or model? Thanks

I am not aware of one. Mine are new old stock.
 

gestalt

Active Member
Aug 4, 2019
68
56
25
Nashville, TN
gestalt.audio
@PeterA. Is there a source for the Ching Cheng power cables you and @ddk use? And is there a particular grade or model? Thanks
I have a few I keep for clients if you'd like to pick one up, Will.
 
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PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
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North Shore of Boston
I have been experimenting with power delivery from my panel to my components for about a year now. The first step was comparing various power cords. I finally settled on NOS Ching Cheng cords I got from ddk. The next step compared the Furutech IEC connectors on the ends of JPS Labs In Wall wiring from the panel to industrial grade isolated ground Hubbell receptacles. To do this comparison, I simply made up some DIY receptacle boxes connected to the JPS Labs wiring.

This was followed in step 3 by comparing standard industrial in wall wires to the JPS Labs wires. I made up the outlet boxes on long runs of industrial wires and finally got an electrician to do the installation at the panel. I started the wire comparisons yesterday when a friend was over coincidentally. He heard the same differences I did, though he described them using different language. I finished the comparisons by listening all afternoon and evening, but the contrast was clear and consistent from the first LP I put on.

In summary, these are the power delivery steps I have taken so far:

1. Replaced five (5) audiophile power cords with NOS Ching Cheng cords from ddk
2. Replaced Furutech audiophile IEC connectors with industrial grade Hubbell receptacles
3. Replaced JPS Labs audiophile In Wall wiring with industrial grade wiring

The electrician installed new breakers for the four new dedicated 30 amp circuits. The JPS Labs wiring was on three circuits. Now each amp is on its own circuit, the turntable motor is separate and the preamp and phono stage share a circuit. Each circuit is on the same phase in the panel and opposite the refrigerator and other appliances. I may replace the 20 amp breakers with 30 amp breakers.

My next step is to clean up the installation and actually mount the receptacles in the baseboards on the walls in the final locations and then to try to improve the grounding scheme with new rods into the damp soil under my basement and possibly insert a sub panel before the main panel dedicated to the audio circuits, but I don't know if that would meet the local codes.

Each of the three steps so far has improved the sound quality incrementally. In a general sense, I would describe it as simply sounding more natural, less hifi, more emotional, less analytical. For those who want a more specific description, this is what my friend and I heard:

1. an overall more balanced sound
2. specific sonic attributes draw less attention to themselves; individual frequencies are less pronounced
3. the bass frequencies sound cleaner and more extended, more nuanced, more varied
4. there is greater differentiation between recordings
5. increased clarity
6. more evident recording venue cues
7. less tizzy/white, more tonally saturated high frequencies
8. singers sound more human, more present, more dimensional
9. hollow instruments sound more hollow, less solid
10. overall impression is less about system, more about music, it draws you in more

Edit: heard one day later:

11. Music is more immediate and present in the room.
12. Greater information retrieval.

Like others here, I have come to learn that power delivery is the foundation of a natural sounding system. I lived very happily with what was recommended by my dealer years ago: JPS Labs In Wall wiring, Furutech IEC connectors, audiophile power cords into audiophile distribution boxes, EquiTech balanced boxes. I have learned from direct experimentation in my own system that this simpler, more basic, much less expensive approach has yielded superior results, at least for me in this system. I have the impression that my components are now sounding more as they should, (but this is just a hunch).

Here are some photos of the DIY outlet boxes and wiring lying around the floor for easy and quick A/B comparisons in this latest round of wiring options. Top photo shows turntable motor circuit and the preamp/phono circuit. Bottom photo is of one amp channel.

Out with the old, in with the new.


IMG_0896 2.JPG

IMG_0897 2.JPG
 
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Joe Whip

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,325
165
320
Wayne, PA
I have now removed all of my audiophile level PCs from my system and have gone to pro audio cords and power strip at the recommendation of Jim Anderson, who wired his whole studio with the stuff as well as his home systems. I am thrilled with the results and wrote a piece about it at another site. Use 20 amp Romex from my sub panel up here. I hear the same things PeterA has described.
 
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Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 4, 2014
2,061
2,051
680
Denmark
I have been experimenting with power delivery from my panel to my components for about a year now. The first step was comparing various power cords. I finally settled on NOS Ching Cheng cords I got from ddk. The next step compared the Furutech IEC connectors on the ends of JPS Labs In Wall wiring from the panel to industrial grade isolated ground Hubbell receptacles. To do this comparison, I simply made up some DIY receptacle boxes connected to the JPS Labs wiring.

This was followed in step 3 by comparing standard industrial in wall wires to the JPS Labs wires. I made up the outlet boxes on long runs of industrial wires and finally got an electrician to do the installation at the panel. I started the wire comparisons yesterday when a friend was over coincidentally. He heard the same differences I did, though he described them using different language. I finished the comparisons by listening all afternoon and evening, but the contrast was clear and consistent from the first LP I put on.

In summary, these are the power delivery steps I have taken so far:

1. Replaced five (5) audiophile power cords with NOS Ching Cheng cords from ddk
2. Replaced Furutech audiophile IEC connectors with industrial grade Hubbell receptacles
3. Replaced JPS Labs audiophile In Wall wiring with industrial grade wiring

The electrician installed new breakers for the four new dedicated 30 amp circuits. The JPS Labs wiring was on three circuits. Now each amp is on its own circuit, the turntable motor is separate and the preamp and phono stage share a circuit. Each circuit is on the same phase in the panel and opposite the refrigerator and other appliances. I may replace the 20 amp breakers with 30 amp breakers.

My next step is to clean up the installation and actually mount the receptacles in the baseboards on the walls in the final locations and then to try to improve the grounding scheme with new rods into the damp soil under my basement and possibly insert a sub panel before the main panel dedicated to the audio circuits, but I don't know if that would meet the local codes.

Each of the three steps so far has improved the sound quality incrementally. In a general sense, I would describe it as simply sounding more natural, less hifi, more emotional, less analytical. For those who want a more specific description, this is what my friend and I heard:

1. an overall more balanced sound
2. specific sonic attributes draw less attention to themselves; individual frequencies are less pronounced
3. the bass frequencies sound cleaner and more extended, more nuanced, more varied
4. there is greater differentiation between recordings
5. increased clarity
6. more evident recording venue cues
7. less tizzy/white, more tonally saturated high frequencies
8. singers sound more human, more present, more dimensional
9. hollow instruments sound more hollow, less solid
10. overall impression is less about system, more about music, it draws you in more

Like others here, I have come to learn that power delivery is the foundation of a natural sounding system. I lived very happily with what was recommended by my dealer years ago: JPS Labs In Wall wiring, Furutech IEC connectors, audiophile power cords into audiophile distribution boxes, EquiTech balanced boxes. I have learned from direct experimentation in my own system that this simpler, more basic, much less expensive approach has yielded superior results, at least for me in this system. I have the impression that my components are now sounding more as they should, (but this is just a hunch).

Here are some photos of the DIY outlet boxes and wiring lying around the floor for easy and quick A/B comparisons in this latest round of wiring options. Top photo shows turntable motor circuit and the preamp/phono circuit. Bottom photo is of one amp channel.

Out with the old, in with the new.


View attachment 75289

View attachment 75290
Was the friend visiting ddk/David by any chance ? ;) When are you getting your Micro Seiki, you must be getting exited by now ?
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
5,140
1,520
483
Switzerland
I have been experimenting with power delivery from my panel to my components for about a year now. The first step was comparing various power cords. I finally settled on NOS Ching Cheng cords I got from ddk. The next step compared the Furutech IEC connectors on the ends of JPS Labs In Wall wiring from the panel to industrial grade isolated ground Hubbell receptacles. To do this comparison, I simply made up some DIY receptacle boxes connected to the JPS Labs wiring.

This was followed in step 3 by comparing standard industrial in wall wires to the JPS Labs wires. I made up the outlet boxes on long runs of industrial wires and finally got an electrician to do the installation at the panel. I started the wire comparisons yesterday when a friend was over coincidentally. He heard the same differences I did, though he described them using different language. I finished the comparisons by listening all afternoon and evening, but the contrast was clear and consistent from the first LP I put on.

In summary, these are the power delivery steps I have taken so far:

1. Replaced five (5) audiophile power cords with NOS Ching Cheng cords from ddk
2. Replaced Furutech audiophile IEC connectors with industrial grade Hubbell receptacles
3. Replaced JPS Labs audiophile In Wall wiring with industrial grade wiring

The electrician installed new breakers for the four new dedicated 30 amp circuits. The JPS Labs wiring was on three circuits. Now each amp is on its own circuit, the turntable motor is separate and the preamp and phono stage share a circuit. Each circuit is on the same phase in the panel and opposite the refrigerator and other appliances. I may replace the 20 amp breakers with 30 amp breakers.

My next step is to clean up the installation and actually mount the receptacles in the baseboards on the walls in the final locations and then to try to improve the grounding scheme with new rods into the damp soil under my basement and possibly insert a sub panel before the main panel dedicated to the audio circuits, but I don't know if that would meet the local codes.

Each of the three steps so far has improved the sound quality incrementally. In a general sense, I would describe it as simply sounding more natural, less hifi, more emotional, less analytical. For those who want a more specific description, this is what my friend and I heard:

1. an overall more balanced sound
2. specific sonic attributes draw less attention to themselves; individual frequencies are less pronounced
3. the bass frequencies sound cleaner and more extended, more nuanced, more varied
4. there is greater differentiation between recordings
5. increased clarity
6. more evident recording venue cues
7. less tizzy/white, more tonally saturated high frequencies
8. singers sound more human, more present, more dimensional
9. hollow instruments sound more hollow, less solid
10. overall impression is less about system, more about music, it draws you in more

Like others here, I have come to learn that power delivery is the foundation of a natural sounding system. I lived very happily with what was recommended by my dealer years ago: JPS Labs In Wall wiring, Furutech IEC connectors, audiophile power cords into audiophile distribution boxes, EquiTech balanced boxes. I have learned from direct experimentation in my own system that this simpler, more basic, much less expensive approach has yielded superior results, at least for me in this system. I have the impression that my components are now sounding more as they should, (but this is just a hunch).

Here are some photos of the DIY outlet boxes and wiring lying around the floor for easy and quick A/B comparisons in this latest round of wiring options. Top photo shows turntable motor circuit and the preamp/phono circuit. Bottom photo is of one amp channel.

Out with the old, in with the new.


View attachment 75289

View attachment 75290
Interesting Peter. I have always used the industrial wire that was in my walls and not audiophile in wall wire. Have you tried an actual power regenerator? Not a filter but actual reconstruction of the waveform? I found this to have a huge benefit towards realism in my playback.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
3,463
760
North Shore of Boston
Was the friend visiting ddk/David by any chance ? ;) When are you getting your Micro Seiki, you must be getting exited by now ?

David will be visiting, but i’m not ready for him yet. The turntable has been delayed due to weather. It is scheduled to arrive Friday or Monday. Yes indeed, I’m getting quite excited.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
3,463
760
North Shore of Boston
Interesting Peter. I have always used the industrial wire that was in my walls and not audiophile in wall wire. Have you tried an actual power regenerator? Not a filter but actual reconstruction of the waveform? I found this to have a huge benefit towards realism in my playback.

No Brad, I’ve never tried a power regenerator. The closest I’ve tried I think is an equitech balanced power box for my front end equipment.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 25, 2015
8,960
3,334
780
Beverly Hills, CA
Very interesting, Peter! Thank you for the report!

Are you able to tell us your impressions focusing solely on the comparison between regular in-wall house power cable versus JPS In-Wall cable?

(I installed JPS In-Wall after it was recommended to me by my electrical contractor, and before I thought carefully myself about these issues. But I did abort the installation of Furutech NCF duplex receptacle components.)
 
Last edited:

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
3,463
760
North Shore of Boston
Very interesting, Peter! Thank you for the report!

Are you able to tell us your impressions focusing solely on the comparison between regular in-wall house power cable versus JPS In-Wall cable?

Thank you Ron. I heard roughly the same thing at each step, I would say the Ching Cheng power cords over audio file cords was the biggest difference.

My list of 10 descriptions above are based on what my friend and I heard yesterday which was the direct wire comparison. All of this held true at each of the stages. The Ching Chengs just made everything sound more balanced clear and natural. The IEC to outlet comparison was basically an improved bass quality. The wire comparison is listed above.
 
Last edited:

wil

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2015
478
251
268
Thank you Ron. Do I heard roughly the same thing at each step, I would say the Ching Chang power cords over audio file courts was the biggest difference.

My list of 10 descriptions above our base on with my friend and I heard yesterday which was the direct wire comparison. All of this held true at each of the stages. The Ching Chang’s just made everything sound more balanced clear and natural. The IEC to outlet comparison was basically and improved base quality. The wire comparison is listed above.
Peter, can you provide some sort of technical explanation (maybe what DDK has told you) as to why you think the Ching Chang cables give you the sound you like compared to your other cables?

It's great that you've found this solution. Year's ago a dealer told me about Gotham cables which he bought in bulk to make his own inexpensive cables. Maybe a similar cable to the CC's?
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
3,463
760
North Shore of Boston
Peter, can you provide some sort of technical explanation (maybe what DDK has told you) as to why you think the Ching Chang cables give you the sound you like compared to your other cables?

It's great that you've found this solution. Year's ago a dealer told me about Gotham cables which he bought in bulk to make his own inexpensive cables. Maybe a similar cable to the CC's?

Hello Wil, I cannot provide technical information about why these cords sound good to me. I will say that they simply seem to be well-built high quality construction basic cords. I do not think they use metals which either accentuate or reduce certain frequencies as other specialty cords and connectors seem to do at least in my listening experiments. These power cords simply sound more balanced to me and even though they are thinner gauge they do not seem to restrict the sound in terms of openness effortlessness and dynamics.

Perhaps the simple molded plastic connectors make a difference.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
3,463
760
North Shore of Boston
I have now removed all of my audiophile level PCs from my system and have gone to pro audio cords and power strip at the recommendation of Jim Anderson, who wired his whole studio with the stuff as well as his home systems. I am thrilled with the results and wrote a piece about it at another site. Use 20 amp Romex from my sub panel up here. I hear the same things PeterA has described.

Joe, what do you mean by “Pro audio cords“? When when you say you hear the same thing I described in my post, are you talking about the power cord change or the in wall wiring from your panel?
 

Joe Whip

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,325
165
320
Wayne, PA
Pro audio power cords, designed for use in recording studios, guitar amps, designed to be rugged, taken on the road etc. not marketed to audiophiles. I use standard romex from the panel to my outlets. Nothing fancy, just for 20 amp circuits. The romex has yellow sheathing instead of white. The power cords are attached to the amp. Pre amp and DAC.
 
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morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
5,140
1,520
483
Switzerland
No Brad, I’ve never tried a power regenerator. The closest I’ve tried I think is an equitech balanced power box for my front end equipment.
Totally not the same thing. You should try before you declare final victory over unnatural sound :D.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
7,805
3,463
760
North Shore of Boston
Totally not the same thing. You should try before you declare final victory over unnatural sound :D.

Brad, the only final victory I will ever declare is over my own audiophile misconceptions.
 

MadFloyd

Member Sponsor
May 31, 2010
2,681
211
520
Mass
The electrician installed new breakers for the four new dedicated 30 amp circuits. The JPS Labs wiring was on three circuits. Now each amp is on its own circuit, the turntable motor is separate and the preamp and phono stage share a circuit. Each circuit is on the same phase in the panel and opposite the refrigerator and other appliances. I may replace the 20 amp breakers with 30 amp breakers.
Peter, the two bolded lines are confusing. Did the electrician use 20 amp breakers for your 30 amp circuits? If so, what makes the circuit '30 amps'?
 

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